Well i was kinda excited to see new talents finaly. Only to realize…that these new talents are basicaly taking shadowlands class → striping it of all the spells to the bare bones → clicking talents to get back where we are in shadowlands without adding anything new…and in some cases not even that.
Absolutely diaspointing and shameless way how to prune class…
Im sick and tired of every expansion starting from scratch. Let us be OP evwry other exp like in legion ffs…go to hell with stat squishes level squishes pruning and poop like that. Nobody likes that. Whats the point of leveling up 10 levels when it feels like youre leveleing backwards 10 levels down losing legendary powers artifacts azerite and huge chunk of stats, especialy haste …which makes your class feel like horsefecies…only to then spent 2 yeara of getting back where you are before leveling… /sigh
It is clearly another 1 expansion temporary system designed for dragonflight’s level 70 chars (talent points).
In future expansion, when we get more levels and talent points, it will inevitably become bloated and meaningless, when this kind of tree are expanded unlimitedly, the same reason why it failed before and was removed.
This new talent trees will be 100% removed after DF and replaced by another talent system. 100%
I don’t think so. Those trees could last for a few expansions before needing pruning.
But hey, there’s those talents in there where you have to choose between 2 different ones right? What if they add more of those in new expansions? More choice. More options. They can also add more ranks to some talents, slurping up those points.
There’s more than 1 way to deal with bloat. It won’t be a problem for quite a few years and who knows where WoW will be at by that time… We’re getting nearer to it being a 20 year old game. 20! That’s quite insane.
Yes, after nearly 20 years, we know exactly how this is going and what Blizzard will do.
They periodically bring back old reused system and pack it as a new feature for expansions. From artifact power to azerite power to anima power, introduce glyphs - remove glyphs - bring back glyphs.
This time they bring back old talent trees because the vocal minority that asked for it, and reintroduce it as a feature for DF. It is a strict decrease in QoL, but hey, at least it is new for people who never played old trees.
I am sure even if Blizzard bring back weapon skills and spell ranks in future expansions, and reintroduce them as new features, there will still be nostalgia guys being super excited and happy, claiming weapon skills and spells bring more depth and choices to the game.
It has always been like this, and nothing surprising here.
You tell me. Because the argument that change for change’s sake is good is building on quicksand.
You’re telling me to just trust that the change is good, without any arguments to back it up. Despite the last 8 years proving me consistently correct in that change, in fact, hasn’t been good.
On the other hand, when they have learned from their mistakes and gradually pulled back their innovativeness, the game has gotten progressively better.
I’m not saying that’s how it should be. But that’s how it is, with these devs.
But, again: As the many other folk that have asked you, in what world should I be thankful or glad that the things I have had baseline to my spec for years, decades now are suddenly made into talents that I can’t have all at the same time- How is that objectively better for me, as a player?
Again, change for change’s sake isn’t good. Especially when it is marketed under false pretenses.
No but if what you claim is such common sense, and you’re so right- How come so many people in this thread alone disagree with you?
I’m not questioning the “root” design on the trees. I am questioning you telling me this is just common sense- When, clearly it isn’t.
Yeah, exactly.
Take out all the baseline stuff from the talent trees- And instead, offer them as build choices as I suggested earlier:
As an unholy DK, you could for example have, say, two talent paths. One of them leads down to a build that very clearly makes your deathcoil and diseases way more important, and the other on the other hand buffs your pet(s). You can include both new and old talents here, soulbinds etc, or other past borrowed power to make this up.
Then they could come together somewhere in the middle, as hey currently do, where you can choose to still continue down the path of improving your diseases and death coil, or on the other hand you can continue making your pets better- Or,you can mingle and get a bit of both sides.
At the end of the tree you have some powerful new talents that completely change up your gameplay, basic abilities, rotation etc.
-That- is how this concept was sold to us. You could have the odd interrupt in there or talents we already have, thats not the issue. The issue is that, instead of us being offered the whole of talent tree (61 talents) as choices, we’re in practise only given a tiny portion of it as “real” choices. I mean sure, you can choose not to have anti magic shell as a DK. But why the hell would you want to do that? Was anti magic shell a problem since it’s inception in wotlk?
And even if you can pick some new ability or talent at the cost of forgoing anti magic shell as a DK, how will you feel better? That ability’s been with you since Wotlk. It hasn’t been an issue then, it isn’t an issue now, so why not just have it as baseline?
The point I am trying to make here, as I have since the start, is that Blizzard -could- make this system work really well. They could. They could go full innovation and experimentation route with it.
But, instead of them being meaningful choices and tree branches that you freely choose, you are instead forced to spend a lot of your precious talent points on abilities that have been and should be baseline to your class (that you are expected to pick anyway!), and even the talent points that you have remaining are used on the same things you currently have or old powers. There’s nothing new to look forward to.
And the reason they do it like this- As I have said from the start, is because laziness. Incompetence. Maybe outright just giving up- I mean, maybe they just don’t have the talent or the skills left in the company to make good stuff anymore. Everybody left.
The difference between you and me is that you see this as a great potential and trust that it’s going to be great- Where I also see the potential, but I see the massive issues and outright lies it has.
You shouldn’t be content with having to spend 10, 5, or even just one ability point on a thing you are expected to pick anyway. You shouldn’t let them get away with that. Every single talent choice you make should make you feel like you had real agency to do that and real choices to make.
Again- It isn’t. Because the class design hasn’t changed at all for any of the classes- And maybe it won’t even, at all, come dragonflight. Maybe they will rework shadowpriests, i don’t know, I certainly hope so, but I doubt it.
But the problem then is that if the design of the classes does not change at all going into DF, then the choices you make in the tree will be biased toward that design. Sure, you can choose more “varied” options as you have argued, but they’ll be worse choices anyway. You’ll still be expected to pick what Blizzard wants you to pick, because the game design hasn’t changed.
It’s like if you had a car previously where you picked and chose different parts and upgrades to. The car was the same depending on what class of car you picked for everyone, but what accessories and upgrades you chose were up to you, and some of them were mutually exclusive.
Now, you have to build that car up from the ground up. And sure, you have the choice to take rectangular wheels over round ones, but that is just willingly gimping yourself.
technically you have more freedom to choose, but since Blizzard still expects you to make that car function how they have designed it to work, your choices will still gravitate toward that choice. Just like how that druid talent tree example above showed.
Then they shouldn’t call them free to choose talent trees in the first place- Because if you have guided choices, then they are not choices. Word on word. And then you come back to the same old question of, why invent a new talent tree system in the first place, because nothing in practice changes?
No, that’s not how it works. See the above example of good vs bad talent tree design.
I am spending them by Blizzard because I can’t choose to deviate from their plan. That’s no choice.
Then maybe those trees should be shortened by 5. Or 15- Maybe even by 24. Because if they can’t come up with anything new or innovative and give us actual choices, as they tell us, then why, again, make a new talent tree in the first place.
But that doesn’t change the fact that you said you don’t care about balance- So, presumably if they went crazy with the abilities as I proposed, you shouldn’t have any problem with it?
Having freedom to willingly gimp yourself is not something any game studio worth their salt would ever point out as a positive thing.
That’s very simple. You pit abilities in the same weight class with other abilities in the same weight class. So you for example pit shockwave versus stormbolt (an aoe cone stun with a short duration vs a range single target stun with longer duration), etc.
You don’t pit soothe vs bash or control undead versus blinding sleet because that equation is infinitely biased toward one of the two choices in 99% of situations anyway.
Aye, that is true. That is unavoidable.
But pitting choices fairly against one another is important all the same- Otherwise some abilities that were already niche won’t be picked almost at all, but at the same time when the player does find that niche use for those abilities, they will be wondering why were they removed in the first place or put behind a talent choice?
Was it a problem that druids could just soothe, hibernate and cyclone targets at will? Did that break the game at some fundamental level? Was it overpowered and was their kit too good?
No. Of course not.
But they do it not to give you choice, but to spare themselves from the effort of actually making up cool new abilities, passives etc. It’s hard work, that’s the reason.
True, but that doesn’t change the fact that if I showed those pictures to those people, they couldn’t tell the difference at a quick glance. Because that’s how similar they are.
Blizzard very rarely if ever changes anything. It took the whole shadow priest discord, thousands of twitter messages, people literally asking in dev Q&A’s and Blizzcon for Blizzard to add last minute changes to SP in SL, that it desperately needed even in alpha. and even after that, Blizzard hasn’t finished the job and left the spec into the mess it still is in since Legion.
They don’t listen to feedback, they only listen to people banging the drums and screaming and shouting loud enough, that’s what we’re doing here right now and that’s why I’m not letting this go through either.
I’m not saying it should be this way. But it is what it is, because this is what Blizzard has chosen.
Except you can get back most of what you lost easily, there are plenty of points.
I did this for Feral spec, i’ll just link the highlight of what you gain versus what you lose.
In the new expac you’d have lost all covenants, conduits, lego, whatever.
So… the new trees seem better considering the amount of stuff we gain.
This change is good, because you can customize your build more than you can with the current trees and end up with more than you had.
In the world of gaining more than you’re losing?
I already linked above exactly what you’re gaining and losing for Feral.
Players in this thread have an issue with putting their abilities that are now baseline in the trees, without considering that they’re getting most of them back after spending their points and getting back more than they had in total.
It is more freedom, i’ve built the Feral spec 98% how i have it on live and then got a lot of extra stuff, i could forgo more from what i had to gain other stuff easily. That’s my choice, do i want Innervate to throw to a healer in a raid? I’m cutting Maim for example.
Talent trees = baseline is gotten every single time., that’s why they put there your baseline kit near the roots…
If they put in a new ability at the root, then you’d ask: Why isn’t this baseline?
With a talent tree you’re always going to get that baseline near the root.
The choices are in the upper parts of the tree and on the sides, because it’s a talent tree.
Also let’s cut this short, the talent tree has a baseline now, you want more roots? Ask them for more roots, i’m not opposed to have more starting points.
Ofc not, i want as many new abilities to be able to pick as they can think of.
Now for another bottom line:
Is the new kit and tree better than the old one? It is.
Why? Because you can get more stuff out of it than the old one in the end. As proven above.
But thats not true. You yourself in your example show that that’s not true.
You’re not “gaining” 2 conduits, you already have them. You’re not “gaining” 2 covenant abilities, you are selecting them, just as you would if they added a new talent row in the current system + this expansion. You currently have 2 legendary effects available, not just 1. Frenzied regeneration is included in the affinity choice, which you lose in this expansion. The number changes with % are meaninglesss, because even if they didn’t exist in this tree, they could simply be added in as tuning later on so they are not “gains” as they are arbitrary.
You are in truth gaining only those four talent points as you very well showcase in your example, and even one of them is only partial as you show.
On top of that you lose Hibernate. I won’t include the other things because the affinity one was already mentioned so I won’t be doubling it.
Compare that to the 7 talents you currently have, you in fact lose. This was already proven in the Blood Death knight example with Blood only getting 3 more talent points to spend and in class tree the 9, which is better.
Which is, until you look at what you actually gain.
Those 3 points you have left on blood talent tree can only on old talents (split into 2 rank each), a legendary, one new 2 point talent heartrender + tierset. And those are your choices, compared to your previous 7.
Granted, some of those talents you already pick along the way anyway because you have to in order to get to that point.
On the class tree it is objectively better, but it’s again weigthted down by how badly the spec tree is built. Which is why I again ask, why even have spec talent trees in the first place?
Actually it was you initially who told me and everybody that you could in fact build UH tree without even putting points into the ghoul- Which, of course, was not true. But, asides from that, it’s not that simple.
People just disagree with you and therefore it is not common sense.
That 2% sure is working overtime to have all that freedom, huh?
Yeah you could do all of that that is absolutely true but also many of those things you already have currently baseline, so what are you exactly gaining?
That’s not how it should be.
No, I’d say that is instead great and I am glad there are multiple roots to start from and paths to explore, as I showed in my example. But that’s not what they are now, are they?
Aye, only that you don’t get to even choose your starting root. You’re forced into it, as the blood DK and all the other spec talent trees show. They should have multiple starting points, each with new + old talents, passives etc.
Then why not just get rid of the bottom part of the tree because that’s where you choices aren’t real choices, and instead just give us the bottom part?
I already have multiple times, including in the part that you very conveniently skipped in your quotes in your response to my latest post.
So can you please answer the question then: Do you or do you not have an issue with balance. Yes or no?
The bottom line is instead this:
Is the new talent tree better than the old talent tree?
We don’t know. But if Blizzard’s 8 year track record is anything to go by, then probably not. It doesn’t bring anything new and innovative into the table, it wastes more than half of the choices into nodes you are expected to pick anyway, which begs one to ask why have 30 + 31 choices in the first place if only the bottom 15 or so choices seem to matter? The system is the same as we have now, wrapped in different paper.
You can objectively get some more things as shown above, but not as much as you prove above, and on top of that you have to consider them vs the current talent choices we have.
Also a lot of the new talents are going to old passives from previous expansions and current conduits, so it’s not like you’re going “wahoo” at them.
So the conclusion is instead that just like most stuff Blizzard manages to cough out these days, it is uninspired, half-baked, and exaggerated promises.
No, you’re gaining those because after this expac is over, all the systems from SL will be left behind.
So everything i’ve listed there will be gained through the talent trees.
You basically only lose hibernate… Ironfur you can pick up if you want, trading against something else ofc.
For Mangle, that’s nowhere to be found, they just forgot to add it to the preview of what you gain baseline, since Mangle is used under bear form, the intern didn’t catch that one!
Someone mentioned that Blood has more stuff in the trees than Unholy or Frost, meaning the points are more diluted, that’s something that needs to be fixed when reviewing the trees. So that’s probably why you’re short on points.
That was due to a bug with the talent tree where i already had a build and i unclicked the ghoul and it let me.
People disagree that roots are mandatory on a tree?
That sounds like a them problem.
That was me trying to get what i have on live for easier compare of what i can gain, the 2% is what i didn’t get: Hybernate, Ironfur and Mangle basically.
I can make a different spec where i lose more of what i currently have baseline to get other stuff, that’s the point of the trees. Something like that, i can’t do on live.
I gain the possibility of doing that, on live i can’t.
I meant that as replacing the current roots, not adding. It means that in turn is “mandatory” to get since it’s a root and you’d ask, why is it not baseline since i can’t go over it.
That doesn’t mean that i’m opposed for them to adding more roots, that was just an example on what a root is, regardless of ability placed there.
because like i gave the above example, it would just be replaced by something else you consider unstoppable and therefore deserving of being granted baseline, it’s never ending.
I didn’t skip it, i agree with it.
More starting points? Sure, go ahead, the more the better.
I want things balanced.
Not at the cost of new things.
So add new things and then strive for balance.
Not adding new things and trying to balance what we have is boring.
We do know, i already listed what you gain versus what you have on live. It’s definitely a +.
No, the borrowed power you have on live doesn’t count, because you’re leaving that behind when going to DF.
I did get as much as i proved above, hence why it’s proof… it’s exactly what i got out of the Feral tree.
It’s the first iteration of the trees… they will change like they always do.
Have you been living under a rock since MoP or what?
The players universally hate when you take things from them and give them back as talent “choices” and nodes. Artifact weapons, past abilities, etc. Of course as many of them as possible should carry over or be added to your kit so it grows.
yeah you’re gaining back borrowed power, wooh. I can really hear the playerbase clapping their hands as they have for the past 10 years. Very innovative.
Speaking of that, why lose it? Is it such a gamebreaking important ability that it should even be a talent in the first place? Why should it be a talent in the first place?
Yes, and?
Yeah but that doesn’t matter, maybe you shouldn’t assume people don’t know/understand how to use the tree when clearly you too yourself have issues with it at times.
Well for sure, but you are the one who claimed this is common sense, but then the “common” doesn’t seem to agree with you, therefore it’s not really common sense, is it?
Because if it was everybody would just agree with you but that’s not the case.
You’re missing the forest from the trees again. Again, in order to what you have now, as is supposed to be possible, you now only have that 2% choice to spend on other stuff.
Whereas in live you have 7 talent points. Which for sure is more than 2%.
You are offered the exact same building blocks as you have now. You are going to get them anyhow, the only difference is that instead of them being automatically there for you, you get to pick them up.
So you don’t gain anything.
Well obviously you’d have to replace the current roots. Actually you’d have to replace most of the talent tree and add new pathways alltogether. You’d have to build this thing again from the ground up.
I have said 3 times now that this isn’t the case, can you stop putting words into my mouth? In fact I have advocated for them to add something completely new, which you again seem to fail to quote. Alternatively, please find me a quote where I say this or be silent about it already.
Then why are you claiming above that I want something complete opposite to what I have suggested?
Ok so that’s a yes then, thanks for clarifying that.
We have been leaving stuff behind since Legion and the playerbase universally hates it. And they are very well aware of it. So don’t try and tell me that I should just ignore and accept that we’re losing stuff because thats normal- It isn’t. It hasn’t been normal since legion, and it still isn’t.
The proof turned out to be sugarcoated as I also proved, hence you do not gain as much as you claim we do.
“it’s only alpha”
“It’s only beta”
“It’s only prepatch”
“It’s only 10.0”
“Next expansion will fix it”.
jfc, the definition of insanity etc.
Maybe they should?
Ask yourself this: Why are you content with being offered scraps? Why do you not demand better work from them? They are a multi-billion dollar company, surely designing 61 exciting talents isn’t an impossible task?
And normally you would just be losing the majority of them anyway.
So you better be grateful to the new trees for allowing them to continue existing as choices.
It’s not borrowed power anymore after you have it in your trees.
Idk, why did ret have to lose Inquisition forever?
It happens, you lost stuff between expacs, and gain other stuff.
Except this time you’re gaining more than you’re losing.
And it means it’s unbalanced in this iteration and should be fixed.
All i hear is that you’re salty at this point in time, maybe go and lay down a bit.
I’m not responsible for others not having common sense.
You don’t have it either it seems.
You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
I said 98% of what i got was similar to live, because i went for that to compare.
That’s of the abilities i got to match.
My build is made of 98% live + 2 conduits, 2 covenant abilities, 1 lego, frenzied regen, 6% phys dmg and armor, 12% healing done and 6% healing taken, 6% crit, 3% speed and 3% dmg reduce + 4 more talents than live.
I have these extra +4 talents basically, 2 consuits, 2 cov abilities, 1 lego, frenz regen, + all those dmg and healing modifiers.
And i lose fricking Hybernate, Ironfur and Mangle.
Any sane person would make that trade in a heartbeat.
Maybe play with the trees and notice you can put some points in other places.
If you put NEW ABILITY instead of Heart Strike and give Heart Strike baseline.
That NEW ABILITY is now MANDATORY to get since it’s the start of the Blood Tree.
Then you’d go, why isn’t it baseline? Since i can’t avoid getting it.
You’re misunderstanding lots of things i see, you have trouble comprehending simple text?
You’re crying about losing hibernate and gaining 4 talents in the old trees basically if i were to put it on a scale.
Crybaby much?
The trees always change through development, it’s your first time?
You’re comparing the new trees with something you’ve made up in your head, i’m comparing them to what we have on live.
You’re being completely delusional if you think they’ll ever add 50-60 brand new talents per spec.
I don’t need to be nor should I be grateful that things that I used to have are now offered to me as talents.
Word-on-word “Same stuff, different paper”.
Good question.
If it happens because of no reason or explanation, then maybe it shouldn’t happen.
Yeah, you’re gaining a whole total of 3 vs 7. Great.
You’re not going to fix it by making a few minor adjustments. You need this whole thing redesigned.
How am I salty for pointing out the hypocrisy in your posts? I didn’t attack you as a person, I just pointed out that you point fingers at others but conveniently seem to forget you yourself did something too.
That’s the great thing about common sense, if it is common, then regardless of what walks of life we come from, then it should be, as you say, common sense.
But since we don’t agree, it can’t be common sense. It’s an oxymoron.
Of course they would, because they have no choice because those things you listed used to be baseline for them, but no longer they aren’t.
Water is wet etc.
I have and unlike you I didn’t say that you can build UH without taking ghoul.
Aye, that’s why you’d have separate paths as I advocated in my example, so what are we disagreeing on exactly?
How about you instead answer the question.
I think you are the one who should have a nap instead- Because you seem to be resorting to personal insults instead of actually answering to the points. That’s fine by me, it’s your credibility, not mine.
Also I didn’t complain hibernate loss vs those choices. I complained why remove it in the first place, and why do we have to choose 4 when we previously had 7.
The last time “trees” changed was in MoP, back when we had good devs in the team.
I am asking you why are you content with what you’re given, can you answer that?
The layout of the talent trees and the placement of talents is gonna change.
Druids class tree and resto tree has already changed from what was shown during the announcement. The picture they showed during the announcement can still be viewed on the dragonflight website.
They made it very clear that these are early in development and will need a lot of work along with all the other classes.
And they clearly labelled them “WORK IN PROGRESS MOCKUP”.
The promised after the announcement to release the talent trees ASAP in order for us to give as much early feedback as possible before the designs are set in stone.
So just stop with the “it’s only alpha”, “It’s only beta”, “It’s only prepatch” argument since it doesnt add anything.
As a fury warrior I have been told those things since shadowlands beta, difference is back then blizzard said, wait til you try it and now they are asking us to help them develop a core part, not just of dragonflight, but for world of warcraft as a whole.
They are finally getting rid of the borrowed power systems in order to create a “evergreen” system like we have been asking for.
If they had their way we would probably have a covenant v1.2 with dragon aspects instead with their own unique class ability and signature ability.
I’m pretty sure everyone agrees that we want more options and that the start of the tree needs to be wider so you have a choice as soon as you get your first talent point.
I would rather the trees have a hourglass shape than the current arrowhead shape.
The other thing that has us split is about what should be baseline and what should be in the tree.
In the earlier days we had class trainers where we learned new abilities and ranks/upgrades at certain levels. When they started with what is now the current talent system we started to learn things automatically when levelling up so no need to go to the trainer to learn anymore, an alright QoL improvement.
We got small upgrades spread pretty evenly between our abilities whether you wanted to upgrade those abilities or not.
Now that we are not only getting a spec tree but also a class tree they want the talent system to replace these “trainers” and automatic ability learnings and upgrades to allow us to choose which we want to learn and upgrade while also giving us more options to choose from which previously was limited to certain specs.
By putting everything into the trees you can now skip this upgrade to an ability you dont want to upgrade and trade it for something that fits your playstyle better.
I personally fully agree with this philosophy.
I would not have minded if they went further and removed the specialization lock that was introduced in Cata so we could go back to true hybrids.
But I know that’s not happening since a lot of the modern systems are built around there specialization identifiers for matchmaking and mechanic behaviour.
I can understand that after getting used to getting all our class abilities automatically when leveling up for so long that it will feel weird or bad to have to spend these important and limited power points on something reaching level 40 just gave you before.
And it is a fair point, but after a year or so with the new system will it still feel that bad considering you still have the options to get that ability if you want it?
The way I see it the more baseline abilities we have, the choices of builds we can make will be less.
And I have seen arguments being made for every type of ability to be baseline.
Is it an ability that is situational? Baseline.
Is it an ability that used regularly? Baseline.
Is it a primary dps cooldown? Baseline.
This pretty much solidifies your toolkit and makes it harder to break that mould.
As fury warrior maybe I don’t wanna play with MoPs version of raging blow and wild strike instead of the current playstyle of building rage with bloodthirst and raging blow and then spend all that rage on rampage and repeat.
Maybe I want Arms version of Execute too that can actually execute someone.
Which version should be baseline?
Don’t get me wrong, I love the current fury playstyle, for raids and m+.
But it has been a while since I slapped someone so hard in PVP that they popped everything in panic.
Since I want to see many different builds for all specs, I think everything should be put into the tree.
Current mockup does not really bring back any old playstyle, but it has room for it.
Is it just wishful thinking that it will happen for dragonflight, almost guaranteed, but there is room for a crit build with current playstyle if they add back some old borrowed power abilities/effects and let us keep some current ones.
To end this little rant I’m just gonna summarize.
I believe a bunch of baseline abilities will be a roadblock for adding new abilities and builds to the classes and specs.
While the mockups to me is a huge improvement over current talent system, it needs work. The lines/arrows connections needs to be looked at. Talents that require 2-3 points but only give for example 10/20% bonus damage should be changed so each point adds something new to the upgrading ability, example: Improved Frost Strike [NNF]: Increases Frost Strike damage by [10/20%]. Two Rank Talent. Cold-Blooded Rage: Frost Strike critical strikes have a [5/10%] chance to grant Killing Machine. Two Rank Talent.
Could be merged, 1 point bonus damage 2 points also gives FS crits change to grant killing machine. And make the full purchase optional but rewarding so you don’t have to put two points in to progress to the next node but you want to put two points in because it improves your gameplay.
But I will leave DK and Druid for those that main them and wait for warriors to release so I can deep dive into that.
No lol? The 0.1% that cares sims them, and puts them to Icyveins, and we mortals, that don’t have the time or the will to deal with minmaxing BS just copy paste them.
You have them now aswell. Except it’s combined into talents, covenants and soulbinds. The only difference being it’s just looking for 3 guides on Icyveins, rather than one.
You are speaking from a perspective of someone who does higher than +26, where normal unavoidable boss abilities (like the spew from Blightbone) start oneshotting, but once again, this is the 0.1% of the game.
But this concept is old, as I’ve explained in my initial post. Levelling / progressing is something people looked for in first 3 expansions.
Now, this is gone. You level 1-50 in 3 hours, and 50-60 in maybe 5 hours. If you click on 40 talents instead of 6, what difference is it gonna make? None.
Thing is we have seen changes made in the early stages of beta.
People just seem to forget, probably because the changes made is not what they wanted.
Conduits in beta used to be items in your bag that placed straight into the conduit slot like gems, unlike the current ones that you learn.
And just like gems if you put another conduit into the slot you already had one in you destroyed the old conduit.
There was no energy or anything so if you had a lot of conduits you could swap until you ran out of them.
People didnt like this system though, so they changed it so you learn the conduit permanently at the highest level you have obtained, and to stop us from switching for min-maxing they added conduit energy.
And that require more technical work than moving talents around in a system they are already in.
It wasn’t the change we were hoping for but we no longer had to farm additional conduits so we could change them for different content, but we were still limited and slowed down because blizzard tried to hold the top ranked players from completely min-max every fight.
Thing is covenants, soulbinds, conduits, legendaries and pretty much all content in shadowlands were tied to eachother which makes them harder to change without affecting the whole expansions experience.
The new talent system is not tied to Dragonflight. So they do not have to consider any of the dragonflight systems when working on the talents.
They never fix what’s wrong with what they implement during the beta, it’s held true every expansion. If the expansions had started out the way they ended, the expansions would be a looooooot better received. Instead we’ve gotten:
Legion, pretty much unable to play off-specs or alts, up until the very end due to the artifact weapons. Also, legendary system was really bad right up until you could buy them.
BFA with AP, again, gating us behind tedious grinds. Then they added essences, which weren’t account-wide to start with, so you couldn’t really play alts. Then they made corruptions, which were awful to obtain to start with. Towards the end of BFA, the game was ok to play. I mean, just okay. This is to date the worst expansion they’ve ever released solely due to the heart of azeroth stuff right up until the end.
Shadowlands once again added tedious stuff, with timegating your progress on the covenant soulbinds nodes - you also had to wait WEEKS to be able to unlock your soulbinds due to the renown being gated. Then if you wanted to switch to another covenant, you had to redo the whole renown grind again. Tedious. Then when you wanted to play alts, you had to redo the campaign again, even if it was the same campaign you did on your main char. Then you had to grind soul ash, soul cinders from 9.1 and now in 9.2 and onwards, cosmic flux to make legendaries. You still can’t send cosmic flux over, btw.
