I smell another Warcrimes-level novel. I guess I’ll wait for the reviews, but I’ll likely skip it.
Hope this is her requiem, though.
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To who? She betrayed everyone. She commited genocide against unarmed civilians and tortured their souls. How is she a hero?
Because Teldrassil will be glorified and painted as a good thing? I don’t get it. Sounds like a Blizzard thing to do.
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Whilst I can see why there’s hinting at this, I can’t see anything on it being exclusively all about making fun of Teldrassil or the Night Elves that many of the implicative posts seem to keep trying to hammer…
We just don’t know what’s gonna be in the book apart from the cover, and the overall paragraph. And while the controversy prospect is bleak, the fact that these dissonant claims are being hammered as fact is not a great idea.
In the context that tackles her entire arch, one must sport some particularly thick blinders in order to not acknowledge her past heroic feats.
Not only towards the Forsaken, but with the Horde and even the Alliance.
Neither do I.
In fact, the summary alone acknowledges the fact that her acts are considered controversial to say the least, or downright villanious.
The only thing that it does, is foreshadow some development that may try to reconcile the dispar opinions or takes on her character.
There will obviously be some that would rather they kept her as one-dimensional as possible in her “evilness”, and may take any hint at an underlying positive trait with repulse.
But fact is, that the summary alone seems to account for the negative the character did.
And in fact, hints at an “ultimate choice” that reeks of a partially redeeming sacrifice of the character as payment for her crimes.
In all, fully expecting a Wc3 Grom/Darth Vader ending.
Nelf forum warriors 1.5 year after their digital tree got burnt 
Pretty soon the place will be full of them
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With Edge of Night, Before the Storm, Good War, Elegy and Shadows Rising, this makes half a dozen books in which Blizzard try to explain her motivations. Doubt we will know what her plan is even at the end of this book.
At this point it would be easier for Blizzard to just admit they have no idea what to do with her character or why she is still in the story.
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Better to milk than admit, I guess.
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Edge of Night and Good War were short stories that offered a very limited take on the character.
Also, Edge of Night has already been retconned and cannot be taken as canon as its presented as of now in the webpage.
Elegy and Shadows Rising didn’t have any kind of Sylvanas intervention in them.
The only novel that could qualify as something that offered certain degree of development regarding her character, would be Before the Storm. And maybe, War Crimes.
And it presented an already distorted iteration that tried to facilitate the “twist” we had about her for her BfA role as antagonist.
I agree that the writing has been sort of all over the place for her. But i’ll welcome any narrative piece that at least tries to unify said iterations and tries to given them a logical development, or closure.
My thoughts exactly. If their track record of exploring her motivations were not so terrible, I might have been interested in reading this book just to see how they abomination stitch her character back together.
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it’s a story and even the characters u dislike need their motivations and goals contextualized. if u don’t like sylvanas u don’t have to buy or read the book, simple as that
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I don’t think that they will make a fun of it. But they could wrote something like “I as a former High Elf I remember, how Night Elves made my people suffer, now I will burn them down alive, no pity”.
Just like in War Crimes, when Blizzard was trying to tell that not only killers are evil, but victims are evil too. And people will say that all those Worgens, Night Elves, and others mothers and child actually got what they deserve, and Sylvanas will get redeemed.
Example for Garrosh, they weren’t planning execution, they were planning administrative works for his crimes.
Problem is that Blizzard have promised us, that we will understand Sylvanas motivations in game. But now they tell us, that if we want to understand her and the story, we must to by entire book about her.
There were also comments from writers team. Golden have told that this book will be about 3 most strongest, most powerful women’s in the WoW history. Its clearly that this book will show Sylvanas as a hero.
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Where??? Got the book right in front of me.
Point me at the exact page.
Those that though an empty ingame dialogue would suffice, were honestly deluding themselves.
People could watch any character spill their guts out and expose her most intimate secret, and bias would still procure them blinders thick as wall to go “Nope, she lying.”
This has happened with Sylvanas already by the way.
In order to have a complex arch addressed, the story requires more text and care.
It needs books, stories and novels.
Many of Sylvanas traits were showcased out of the game.
And still there are some that dig heels even when they shown her inner thoughts.
Be honest: at this point you don’t like the fact that she may be given layers beyond those of a raid boss set for the chopping block.
There is no problem with that. We all have our bias, and would rather have the story validate it to the extreme.
Well, if it’s to showcase the bits where she sacrificed herself to save Silvermoon, and then worked to free her people from the Lich King grasp, while securing them something resembling a home, there will obviously be great chunks of her story where she is painted as a hero. (In fact, if we are to compare her character arch, I’d honestly say that she has spent more time as a hero than she has as a villain).
The book also seems to emphasise the bits where she acted villainous.
One thing does not negate the other.
Acknowledging someone was a hero, doesn’t mean we are to deny whatever evil he/she ended up doing down the way.
I mean overall the idea that was written there.
Tyrande was like - “Garrosh, your orcs are evil monsters. They killed many of our children”.
And Pandarens were like - “But you Night Elves, you didn’t gave any food to those orcs when they were hungry, you are guilty 2. We will not execute Garrosh for his crimes”.
Well, Blizzard already gave a spoiler in interview, that the story in a raid, will impacts Sylvanas future development. Also this books go live date is in November (after the raid).
So, its already known that Sylvanas will not going to die in a raid. Defiantly they are not going to release another raid like in 9.3. where Sylvanas will be a raid boss again.
So, I know for 100% that Sylvanas will be redeemed. Do I want it? No.
So, Blizzard should make a really good book, that will convince me, that committing a genocide actually could be forgiven. I don’t believe that current Blizzard writers can.
So yes, I do want that book, just to write here in the forums after reading the book something like - “ha, I told you so”.
Oooh boy do the last sentences of the summary smell like redemption
Guess we won’t be having to deal with the Council anymore by the end of SL
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Which council? The Horde one or the Desolate one?
Somehow I doubt it’ll feature Azshara. In which case such statement will have a very peculiar consequences for how the devs see / treat the narrative.
Somehow some video games manage to tell the story in the medium rather than rely on external sources.
Sidelining the problem the devs created with “it’s an mmo” reasoning is not a good idea IMO. To understand the details of what happened in Diablo 3 exernal sources are mandatory too, and by all means its campaign is a single-player material.
Placing the story somewhere else is a conscious choice of the dev team first of all. With some problematic side effects.
Is it surprising when suddenly it turned out that Sylvanas was planning to be a warchief all along?
Retcon-seption is a path to many troubles. Even if the goal is noble on paper.
On topic of the book itself. I will likely treat it as all other warcraft related side media - pull it apart into individual ideas to use them as puzzle pieces someday.
Sadly, the devs in general seem to be too stuck in their “let’s focus on these few ideas and ignore everything else” style of writing. Which makes it impossible to fully dive into enjoying the stories. But as a tool in a tool kit they’re fine.
gl hf
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The Horde one
Nothing even remotely related to that, ever happened in the novel.
Like, ever.
Please, quote me the bits where it happened in case i missed them.
Yeah, because the fact that Azshara didn’t die in her raid, translated into her absolute and unconditional redemption.
Besides, can you quote the interview bits where they specifically mentioned her “future”? Because i recall a different sort of wording. More in line of knowing how her character arch would end.
They don’t need to write a book about that. We wage genocidal wars against other races on a yearly basis ingame.
And it’s not seen as necesarily reprehensible for as long as we do such against some third neutral party, or for as long as Blizzard frames it in a context where they whitewash it to no end.
Still, you’ll have to point yet at a single piece of evidence that showcases how exactly do you know that Sylvanas won’t be held accountable for her actions in BfA.
I mean, i’d say that having a raid with her as boss, is indicative enough of how there will be repercussions to her actions.
Surely, all this doomsaying isn’t baseless speculation…or is it?
Given her personality, background, situation, and overall characterisation prior to this whole villain batting? Yes. Definitely.
We have to work with the circumstances given and the way the story is tackled ingame.
Its not perfect, and it certainly isn’t adequate in some things. But it is, what it is.
Can you honestly argue, that Blizzard would’ve managed to appropriately convey all the necessary information through ingame means?
If so, please, tell me how.
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I mean that after the rounds of ret-cons (which IMO were not really ret-cons, but more of “here is a dozen traits of the character, but we care about only a couple, so let’s ignore the rest of it, consequences be doomed damned”) I do not see scepticism to that part of the story all that surprising. If the devs show that they are willing to go back and forth without providing the necessary context for why that is a natural flow of the story, then it leads to apathy and disappointment among other things. Or so I think.
Main thing is that I do not know what exactly do you mean by “all the necessary information”. Because of that, if I just stay on assumptions which may or may not be correct, I can just give an example of what IMO not to do: Zelling - Voss interaction.
What I saw when I played through that part of war campaign: Zelling asking about the details of becoming forsaken, Lilian goes all the way on topic of “free will”. Does it work? Well, if I would assume that this story exists in the vacuum and has meaning just by itself, it could’ve been considered above average, maybe even good in some places.
But things do not exist in the vacuum. So lamenting over free will after forcing Stone to become undead, then having no problem raising people again and again show me a different story: that “free will” might just be a speech to win some style points and use Zelling more effectively.
How I would imagine doing this story? I imagine the whole Zelling thing happening way faster, within the 1st story part of the campaign, and then triggering Voss to go on her own spiritual journey to find out what it actually is for her. To look for the details of how she became undead, what she went through, her take on necromancy and how it is relateds to her own actions, her take on “free will” and what it means to those to whom she offered none.
And since the player character was with her since her very first steps, if could’ve been a way to build a stronger bond with a character. To go through the thing, find out more about who and how handles their undeath. Who accepted their fate, who hates it, and so on.
There are so many detail, so many things to look at, so many places to visit, all just in a single character arc: Scarlets, Light, dreadlords, state of the forces (cosmo chart I mean, or a glimpse at them), magic used for good, for bad, for good that turned bad, for bad that created opportunities for something good. Necromancy (including its research by Kirin Tor, and even going back to the days of Galakrond - story could touch as many or fiew things related to it), the val’kyrs, other undead who are not a part of the forsaken. Gateway to many themes and places, potentially.
That is how I personally imagine a good exploration of the theme, not a couple dialogue lines that seemed to me like a load of hypocrisy of the dev team, who says “free will is relevant… but only when it comes to the characters we care about”, etc.
Overall, I think I would prefer:
- Depth > bredth. Explore fewer topics, but in-depth, rather than many but with next to no substence.
- More emphasis on consistency. It’s harder to pull off initially, require extra overhead to maintain, but in return, it makes easier other things, like expanding the story (when it’s clear what to account for rather than dealing with a special case after special case all the time)
- Embrace the medium. If the game engine struggles to
dohandle even world bosses, what is the point of going “super epic”? Or as a compromise - use pre-rendered cinematics, animation a-la Afterlives - people seemingly like those, and they could show the “big picture”, those hype moments. But the player could be a part of “special group infiltrating whatever”, accidentally arriving somewhere, handling only a part of a bigger problem rather than doing all at once, and so on. - Stay in touch with the player-base. Without it, it’s so easy to miss that the story that the devs imagined, and the story, that the end users saw, might not be the same: errors in production, troubled development, cut corners, just not being explicit enough, or highlighting side events more that what should’ve been the key part - all those things are relevant to pay attention to and make necessary adjustments to be sure that the story they wanted to tell actually was told.
- In my life I saw quite a few situtions where a source of troubles could be described as “if I have a great answer, I am definitely answering the correct question”. So, however good the idea seems to be, if it does not fit canon or relies on ret-cons to work - just repurpose / reuse the bits of it rather than bend the whole story to make it fit the scene someone wanted to add.
Those are just key ideas, there is a lot more to say, and specific stories would require special handling. When it comes to my take on software development I am all for the idea of minimal viable product: make the core good, make sure it is good, better do a few thing well, than a lot of “what the heck is it”. Once the main thing is done, then sure, expand it, add something new, etc. But it’s not necessary a good idea to add new things when what is there is half-falling apart.
And to add to all of that: it is my take on the thing, because I somewhat know who I am, what and how I could do, etc. There is no “1 size fits all”, and different people could be more successful by taking another route. Sometimes it is perfectly fine to take a path of “if a story is good it does not matter if it contradicts canon”. Sometime the target audience is just fine with it. Sometimes adding new features is a way to improve the product.
But it’s just not how my mind works: there is no point to add new when what is there is in a terrible state; however good story is, if it does not contribute to the rest - it has to go, at least in such state.
edit: mostly grammar, or what I managed to spot when re-read the thing
gl hf
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Okay, now I have a bit more time on my hands a few more notes:
- I am actually happy that the writers are aware that they can’t pull of the kind of character insight they need to sell us a schemer type villain/anti-villain in the game. Her arc has been abyssmal, and a big part of that is, that they actively avoided giving us inside information on her state of mind, to surprise us with the “big reveal” no one cares about. It certainly is too late to change anyone’s mind on her, but it is a step in the right direction, and I hope that they learned that lesson for the future as well.
- Novels aren’t really prot-driving anymore. Nothing that will happen here will be required to understand the story in the game. This book will notbe necessary to understand a possible redemption arc, and can be no sign that one will be set up. Remember that even Vol’jin got his own book. That didn’t save him from being unceremoniously killed off before doing anything as a Warchief, nor did his novel save Thrall from being benched as a driving character for quite a while. Sure, nothing ever stays dead in comic-style stories like this one, and no matter what happens with Sylvanas, we might see her again in a few addons, but that’s a different matter.
- This is a Golden novel. Golden already had a few attempts at Sylvanas’ pov. It didn’t go well. Might be that she was handcuffed by the devs telling her not to spoil anything, and thus making a more or less complete pov hard to write, but it was pretty bad and at times certainly even misleading. Not expecting anything good.
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