Nobody is raiding

Community General Discussion
102

What stuff do you have to do before you can raid? You mean legendaries and reaching a certain itemlevel? All of which you could get by simply completing the questline in ZM, which takes only a few hours. It’s a game. It has a storyline you need to follow just like any other game which, when completed, grants end-game benefits. i.e a free legendary belt.

Raiding always demanded a degree of teamwork and coordination. Even more so BEFORE they gave us the LFG pug feature and LFR difficulty. In other words, what you just described is how WoW has been pretty much forever, before they made it easier on many fronts.

Assembling a raid and completing a run was done the most effectively with a guild rather than alone back in the days. Nowadays, people create pugs entitled “learning the mechanics” or some such when a new raid has been released, meaning you can simply jump aboard those and ain’t forced to join a guild and use coms.

You mean DBM? If you learn the mechanics of a boss so you know what is happening, you don’t really need DBM any more. As for weakauras - that’s only a quality of life increase to better keep track of cooldowns and whatnot, which, again, you don’t need if you are comfortable with the original UI.

Haven’t had this issue. Been doing sepulcher on my main and an alt. Got loot on both.

Can also use the catalyst to convert items into set pieces, which gives you a bonus. Even if the itlvl remains the same, it is a huge upgrade. The set bonuses helps a lot.

People wanted warforged gone for one very big, good reason: It felt really bad when warforged existed, because if you finally got that piece you so wanted but it didn’t get warforged, you’re initially thrilled that you got that item, but that quickly vanished when you realized that, in order to optimalize yourself, you needed to continue farming for the chance at a warforged version of the exact same item.

This system feels good to you? Oh well, to each his own.

What do you mean everything should be account wide? If my main is a plate class and my alt is a leather class, my alt can’t then, obviously, use account wide plate items? And once you’ve completed the ZM storyline to unlock the unity legendary, you unlock it for your whole account, so you can buy the base item and missives off AH and simply craft unity on any character you’d like. That sounds very account wide to me.

Not really problems at all. You’ve created problems that weren’t problems to begin with, and have no idea how privileged as a wow player you are these days when we’re all spoiled to the brim as opposed to back in the days when we didn’t have all of these quality of life options.

As for people constantly complaining about Sepulcher being so difficult - I have asked the raiders in my guild what raid they felt were the most difficult in WoW, and they said Domination was a greater pain in the butt, while others mentioned Crucible of Storms and Trial of the Grand Crusader, which is all the way back in WotLK.

You guys really are complaining about nothing, and won’t ever be satisfied regardless. Perhaps it’s time to consider playing a different game?

An MMORPG like WoW is what it is, and has been so for many years. If you disagree with it, that clearly means you’ve misunderstood what the genre is all about.

103

Can’t see any of your reply valid :slight_smile:

104

Not my problem :slight_smile: You denying the fact that I had plenty of valid points is a you problem, not me or Blizzard problem.

105

The points you made is exactly the points people don’t raid.

106

… What? you’re seriously trying to assimilate my points into your favor and use them against me?

That doesn’t work, as all of my points literally counter all of yours of whiney hiney.

I am going to take this as to mean you have no good arguments to come with in return and that you’ve lost the debate.

Thank you for that :slight_smile:

107

It all depends of the level of content you do.

You want to raid normal, get some ZM gear and a 190itlv legendary just to have the effect and you are good to go.

You raid HC you can do a m+10 per reset, getting you legendary on a better itlv ( nothing crazy maybe rank 5-6)

You want to raid mythich and end the tier in a decent time (2-3 months), nothing to much hardcore, like rank 1k world.

Time to do 10 +15 per reset.

You are playing a DH? Hope you enjoy Plaguefall! Because you are going to spend a lot of time there to get you Poxthom (for the third time) since it’s your bis weapon (while you hope to get it from the vault for having it at higher itlv).

Better get the permanent augmented rune as fast as possible to spare some gold.

Gold that you have already spent of getting your legendary at the highest itlv possible, so now you need to help your guild to host HC boost run. (Changing your schedule from 3 to 4 or even 5 night per week).

In short, it all depends by the results you want to achieve.

108

Yes, it all depends on the results you want to achieve.

And a person who is casual will engage in the causal content needed to achieve what they want.

A hardcore player will dedicate themselves to doing what is needed in order to 100% optimize their character.

Again, what hurdles prevents a player from doing this? Do people have an issue with what the road to get there looks like?

Blizz has made obtaining gear easier than ever, thanks to the vault, AND now the catalyst.

What more do people want? Handed everything to them on a silver platter? The game is essentially doing that for you the way it’s designed right now.

I have three characters I raid with now. I got tier sets on all of them within a short span of time and the legendary rank 9 is easy to afford if you just do the covenant dailies for a period, if you can’t be bothered doing professions. They grant you junk that sells for 500-600g each, and those are in addition to other quests/world quests that gives 1k+ gold.

Let’s say you do one daily everyday for a month. The chest will give you maybe 2-3 junk items that sells for 500g. So that’s 1500. After a month, that becomes 45k. Now do all 3 dailies every day for a month. That’s about 70-90k after a month? And now you can spam Torghast as much as you’d like, so you can get all the soul cinders you need for crafting the legendary within 1 week, instead of having to wait for a weekly reset like we used to. Here again is an example of how Blizz made a feature much more alt-friendly.

Math is not my strongest suit, but that seems pretty faceroll to me. Only requires a bit of patience. WoW has always included content of hefty grinding to some degree. If you do serious raiding, you often make these sacrifices regardless. is it too much grinding? Well, maybe. I think that obtaining legendaries via gold is really dumb, but it is quite achievable if playing WoW by how the current xpac is right now. I am happy they’re going to change it next xpac though. Legendaries via professions instead? Yes please.

109

because, IMAGINE, you can get zero loot or loot in same slot, as i did and for about 20 dungeons i never got any loot except legs, then i run mists for trinket, 18 times, got only pet(for what if i’m already have 3/3?) and nothing more
gearing now is just insane

110

Raiding is irrelevant in SL. The raids are overturned, doesn’t drop enough loot and there is no incentive to do the raids after outgearing them.

They need to bring back wf/tf for raiding only. In legion hc raids stayed relevant for everyone throughout each tier and there were much more people raiding because of this.

111

yep m+ is too easy and the vault is too rewarding for the m+ section
imagine getting myth raid loot from hc raid…thats m+ for you

edit: plus if you get 3k score, which is not that hard, you have technically killed the jailer myth and unlock all conduits on max ilvl
my guild is still progressing on him, but he must be easy if 3k rio score is the equivalent

112

If you raid at a decent level you are not allowed to wait all that time with the little amount of gold you get via callings if you your RL expects you to have a rank nine the week mythic opens.

Plus as I said with the DH example, to get your BIS weapon you have to hope that it come from the Vault otherwise you will have to do subpar dps for the rest of the tier.

113

I’m curious though at actual numbers.
What is the difference in DPS?

Also: ‘subpar’ literally means ‘below the average’.
If you consider BiS to be ‘the average’ then I think there’s something wrong. BiS is ‘the top’, the best you can get. So it’s not the average at all. And honestly; there is nothing wrong with not doing ‘the highest possible’ DPS in the game.

I do agree that BiS items shouldn’t solely be attainable through RNG - besides it dropping from some boss.

114

Enough to make the difference when your personal goal and the one of your guild is to end the tier in a decent amount of time (2-3 months of progress)

115

That doesn’t answer my question though.
Can you share the actual numbers?

Because claims like the ones you’re making don’t mean much without actual numbers.
I’m not trying to give you a hard time here, but there’s many guilds that have finished the hardest raid difficulty in the game already. So it IS doable, apparently.

1 Like
116

a veinripper for DH still makes aroud 3% of your global dps.

You can say that 3% is irrelevant, as you say other guild have cleared it.

But every guild is not the same.

A guild that raids 5 nights instead of 3 is going to end the tier earlier.

Their raid composition? Destro lock are the one of the best specs overall, but you got only 1 in raid and to beat a specific fight the guild before you has used 3 of them and no one wants to reroll since you are soo deep into progression that they will take to much time to gear them on par with the rest of the raid.

And all other handicaps that occour due of a scarsicity of other resources, in cut it short, every advantage big or small will help your team not only for your individual performance but also to cover limits that your team cannot surpass.

117

So, you’re saying that you have done 8/8 m+ runs every week in the latest patch, which unlocks all 3 vault slots on top of potentially granting you loot after you’ve completed a dungeon, up until this point, and all you’ve been rewarded are pants and a pet?

Sorry, I don’t mean to offend anyone here but I kinda refuse to believe that. This feels to me heavily bloated in terms of exaggeration. I have done content on 3 characters this patch and I haven’t had that issue with ANY of them. And you even have weekly quests that rewards freaking HC itlvl items, which is either 265 or 272 loot.

I also looked at your character. I can tell you haven’t done much PvE content this patch.

Again, maybe you played only a few times and then realized you’re suffering from MMORPG fatigue? Because that would explain a lot of the complaining going on in this thread.

I am not so sure you can speak on behalf of every mythic guild, and I am fairly certain that people will take productive measures to ensure they have the gold they need before a new patch release if they intend to jump into mythic ASAP.

Eeh… unless there is concrete data which proves that the leap in damage by going from, let’s say, a second or third best weapon to a BiS weapon is an entire world worth, I am inclined to believe this is heavy exaggeration.

118

when you are few % to get a kill everything matters

119

Looking back I think you are probably right. Needed to look around and chew and ask and talk a bit.

It’s just extraordinarily weird that race to world first guilds almost died of exhaustion - like actual physical exhaustion - and then… well, look at wowprogress. There are now 111 guilds that have killed The Jailer, and of those only 7 Alliance, and of those only 1 in EU; that’s right, there is ONLY ONE ALLIANCE GUILD IN EU THAT HAS CLEARED MYTHIC. That’s just crazy at this point in the tier.

There really are only two options: Everybody quit, raiding or WoW in general I do not know, or it’s too hard. That’s it. And looking at the struggles of the race to world first and my own subjective experiences it was all too easy to conclude we were dealing with overtuned difficulty.

1 Like
120

The nerf after nerf to various raid encounters were a subtle clue too. :sweat_smile:

121

I’ll also come at this from a slightly different perspective…raiding is also a social anxiety nightmare at the moment. I love raiding and I dive in, but after a month or two I have to bow out. Too much “logging” and so much performance monitoring of every error you make - in fact far worse than any real job I’ve ever done - and I’ve only been raiding heroic so far this season. I’m sure there’s an appetite for this amongst the hypercompetitive but if you’re prone to anxiety, and also as a result your performance tanks due to aforementioned anxiety there is a problem, which puts you more under the spotlight and hey, you’re in a spiral.

I’ve been through a lot of guilds in my time and as soon as stress over slow progress to any extent sets in and then threats are thrown over “looking at mistakes” and “will bench offenders” and it is the beginning of a very quick end for me with a guild - I will not perform well under threat and such performance anxiety will generally put me into the line of fire very fast. Just walked out of a raid team and a guild because of this and people’s snarky attitudes (including towards my age, which again is another problem, I’m fed up of being an old man in a environment of veritable children. I try to speak properly using the vocabulary at my disposal, I’m not a “memer”, I’m an educated and experienced person which makes me feel like quite the outlier in any environment I’ve been in, and finding a true “mature” guild is very, very difficult, well, on that one I’ve not succeeded yet. And after all this is an online environment so if I’m up against hostile attitudes, well, I’m just going to walk)

For those white knights who want to undermine me with their “git gud” methods, go and check my logs for Eternal Palace when I was in a super chilled guild…the contrast is striking. But guilds like that are rare, trust me, I’ve been looking for a long time.

So we’ve been through the risk. Now for the reward (I am in part motivated by creating a powerful character, building them up to become powerful and feel dominating) - I suddenly realised how little loot I’ve received from raid bosses to the extent where it’s not really an incentive any more, even clearing heroic is more of a prestige thing - as much as it can be. I wouldn’t like to mention how many times I’ve tried for the First Sigil from Pantheon HC.

And then we have M+. I can absolutely blast out a +15 with ease, with little drama and stress, and it’s fun with friends without ever really becoming a hassle. Plus if I accumulate 8 for the vault then, in all probability, I’m going to be far better rewarded than all that hassle put into raiding.

So trust me, I want to raid, I really do, I love it, but it is not worth the hassle by a long shot from either a reward or personal gratification perspective.