If you’re having problems doing keys then being casual isn’t your problem, it’s being a noob and no one wants to play content catered for noobs…
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The sad part of this thread is that Lili doesent undestand that noone like his good idea.
So instead of providing actual arguments or discussive formulas or even disagree with what I am saying. You choose to insult my person instead. Aight, but the trap of the matter is that it essentially invalidates any argument you may have had and will have.
except it isn’t. What’s the point of raiding if there’s no reward? Raids are, by design: Incredibly hard(For current content. So don’t bother bringing up Onyxia or some other old raids). SO hard that it can’t be done without a proper setup of DPS, healers and tanks.
And here’s the catch. Everyone in the raid needs to know what they are doing and how to do the boss mechanics. Going through wipes, leavers in pugs, potential rage quitters in the group/Guild and once you beat the raid you get nothing?
that’s just spitting in the face of raiders everywhere. Especially for those that actually geared up through said raids. But screw those people right? That’s the gist of what you are saying:
Screw current raiders.
I agree but in reverse cause I don’t understand the mindset of entitlement people like you are showcasing here.
If you think it’s fun to wipe on Fatescribe 5-6 times and then have half the group ragequit or leave cause they aren’t getting anywhere and then finally clear the boss only to get nothing, then all the more power to you. In fact, since that’s the case with your apparent argument. We might as well lock your entire account out of ALL raid loot, since you’d rather do the raid content for fun rather than gear(And thus, you wouldn’t want the loot anyway so no harm done to you).
obviously the above is something I wouldn’t want to happen. But hey, then you’d have no reason to complain IF it were to happen.
This is an opinion you have. BUT fact of the matter is, you look down on people for playing the game in a way that doesn’t hurt you or anyone else in the slightest. THAT is hella petty, pretty freaking sad and all-around douchebaggery levels of A-holeness.
Yes you are. Otherwise you wouldn’t have made the argument that people should just do the raid content for the fun instead of gearing up. So which is it?
The worth of the GEAR is not diminished, but the ACTIONS of the player who worked hard to get it. You don’t seem to understand so let me make it simple.
Your argument spits on end-game raiders who put in the time and effort to clear the raid bosses. I’m not even remotely suggesting what you are saying denotes the worth of gear cause someone can get it through WQ(as per the example). What I am saying is that it spits on the players who already put in the effort.
You wanna get mythic raid gear through WQ’s? Well okay but there’s gonna be a lot of pissed off people who’ll forever shun the minority who would suggest the idea.
If I was a mythic raider and someone proposed this idea and it went to live. I’d fight tooth, nail, claws and spear to make sure that someone never groups with my guild or friends ever ever.
That has entirely to do with the ability to put yourself into the game in order to escape the harsh reality. People who play warcraft like me play the game to escape reality cause reality is absolutely the worst.
Spend 5 minutes on the internet and you’ll find out that Afghanistan is taken by talibans who has no respect for lives, especially those of women and children.
The united states is corrupt to the point where we might as well, metaphorically speaking burn everything down and start over completely. Globally there is a pandemic and the stupidity of people shines brighter than ever cause literally no one gives a damn about safeguarding against it. REALITY sucks man. If I can escape that and look through the eyes of my characters that works hard defending realms and worlds like Bastion and Azeroth respectively then I will.
And part of becoming a ardent, strong defender like so is to get the magically infused gear that makes us stronger. But no, we need to re-evaluate our lives, as if we aren’t already doing what we can in the real world, so now you gotta damn us for this too?
I envy the people who do not know you.
That’s what you personally constitute as fun. And of course, per what you want they wouldn’t get gear from the boss either cause It’s there just for the fun.
How though? We already have the training monastery in Kun-lai summit on Pandaria, thus every raid implemented after said training area was put into the game can just be removed as said training area already fufills what raids can already do but in a very basic way. I’m sure it could be upgraded to feature new fight mechanics but hey, it’s there. So raids like Sanctum has no reason to exist.
Yeah, just not hard enough. You barely want to do the minimum.
Okay first of all, why didn’t you megamind brain put this in BOLD in the first comment? Your entire argument was, rephrased in a very basic way: WQ should award mythic raid gear that works everywhere.
But here, you’re saying something completely different. Man, literally no one on this planet can read minds. Just say it the way you just did here instead of this vague crap. No one’s got the energy for it.
But, I’ll humor your “new” argument here cause it’s, contrary to everything else you’ve said: Actually intriguing. If someone gets the absolute best mythic raid gear, would said gear suck for pvp, dungeons or outdoor activites like world pvp/world quests?
Cause that would kinda suck to be honest, Raids take longer, is factually harder content to do, requires a ton more people and investment to complete, and if said gear they got would be bad for doing something like World quests, they’d be stuck doing just that, raiding.
Same thing applies to everything else. You’re doing WQ’s, well now you’re super powerful, but it only applies to world quests. So now we have someone who has invested time, but they can’t do any other piece of content cause they’d have to start from the beginning.
How would you propose a fix for that conundrum?
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There’s a 46 year old woman who plays resto shaman in my guild. She struggled to do keys higher than 15 but after we encouraged her to try some higher keys with us she realised it wasn’t skill she lacked but information. She now has several 20s done
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It is a handicap mate, such weird mentality. I agree with you.
You started it. 
I don’t. I don’t enjoy raiding.
I do LFR because I feel I have to. For the story and to see the content at least once.
But I don’t enjoy it.
I don’t look down on them.
I do look at them with contempt. Because they are supporting keeping an elitist system in place that is in turn keeping World Content from realizing its true potential.
That’s not even the argument I made.
You said ‘gear’ isn’t worth anything if you can get it in another way.
I disagree with THAT notion. I never said that you shouldn’t get ANYTHING.
I LITERALLY said I didn’t later in that post.
Then get help irl, because that’s not a good reason to play a game.
It’s really unhealthy in fact. And sadly I speak from experience because that was how I USED to play WoW many years ago.
Lol. Who looks down on who, huh?
Because I, perhaps foolishly, assume people read posts before responding to them.
Read back. I literally didn’t.
All I was doing besides that, was disagreeing with your notion about gear. Because I simply don’t look at it like that. But of course I wouldn’t want it changed to stuff like that.
Well, suck isn’t the right word. It would ‘suffice’ to do basic world content.
But someone who has farmed for a long time in world content and who would have a ‘mythic level set of world content gear’, would definitely be more powerful in that content.
Look at it like this:
In the proper activity, the gear would be as powerful as what you’d have earned/unlocked.
In any other activity it would be ‘starter gear’ for that other activity. Not totally useless, but not something you’d be able to do the top of that activity with.
So in a raid example. ‘Mythic world content gear’ would become ‘LFR raid gear’ when in a raid.
Well for a lot of people that wouldn’t be a problem because mostly the complaints are ‘world content sucks I don’t want to do it’. Well with this system you would never have to step into other content if you didn’t want to.
But earning ‘okay’ levels of world content gear, would probably be a fairly easy and fast thing. There’s ways to go about that; have the ilvl scale a bit if you reach certain threshholds in the other activities (for instance: if you have a full set of heroic raid gear, WQs wouldn’t drop pre-LFR ilvls, but would instead start at ‘just below heroic ilvl’). Sort of a catch up system, I suppose.
The point is; the people who dedicate themselves most to the activity they enjoy most will get the best rewards for THAT activity.
Yeah. That’s the idea.
Because me doing world content is meaningless when it comes to raiding.
That’s not unfair imo.
But like I said; there could be a matter of scaling involved (would have to be ‘difficulty’ related of course - I get that). So if I have a full ‘mythic ilvl world content set’ of course that wouldn’t scale to ‘just below mythic raid gear’ that’d be crazy. But maybe that would scale to something like ‘just below heroic raid gear’ - which is basically how it is right now in the live game, in terms of ilvl.
this is common misconception with statistical data
just because you have some “extrememus” in form of X "46 year olf women " who manage something it doesnt meant that your “Average” % of "46 year old women " could do it
you cannot design games around “extremums” - because they you end up with garbage like SL
is she extremum ? yes - just fact of clearing +20s puts her around +/- 10-15k best players in world. even if it was out of “only” 1 mln players this means that she is around top 1% of players in game.
if game has around 2 mln then this puts her around top 0,5% players in world.
this is extremum of extremum.
You don’t decide that. THAT was my argument.
In a game it’s a lot harder. Because personal skills and opinions muddy the waters, so to speak.
Me calling your arguments asinine isn’t me doing personal attacks against you as a person. You can be a very good person but still have asinine arguments for discussions. Same goes in reverse and in pretty much any direction.
So no, saying I started “personally attacking you” per my own words, isn’t the case.
Yes, you do.
You do this as well.
And you aren’t even arguing against it. In fact, your proposed idea of making X gear for X activity worthless for any other activity. Pretty much allowing player who farmed X gear to do the bare minimum in terms of other stuff like Y content. Thus quite literally making gear worth less.
And if you continued to read you’d find out I quoted you on that matter specifically. But go ahead and tell me I’m wrong when you provide half-arsed vague answers, thus you can’t blame me for “getting it wrong”.
I can’t tell if you are joking or if you’re actually serious…
I’m pointing out the fact that you said you wanted mythic raid end-game gear for doing world quests, I;E you want the best stuff for doing the bare minimum.
Albeit you did change the wording but that portion doesn’t apply to my "“Yeah, just not hard enough. You barely want to do the minimum*” comment.
Yeah, reading your vague comments that I took at face value. It’s not my fault you lack the ability or energy to fully elaborate on what you actually mean. If YOU say something and I understand it wrong. Then that’s YOUR fault for not being clear enough. Regardless if I tell you that “hey, you weren’t clear enough with what you meant” or not.
Yes you did. You said and I QUOTE:
You are literally stating here that “IF” blizzard were to give out gear that is ON PAR with mythic raid gear to people who solely do world quests, the people doing WQ’s would deserve it. Keep in mind here that nowhere do you say that “oh well, WQ gear would be weaker in other areas”.
And as such, your first argument is vastly different from your “new” one that I chose to humor.
Except that World quests are essentially at the very bottom. High end heroic dungeon gear is better than pretty much anything you get from world quests until you earn the bonus of having WQ drops be better. And even then there’d be no point in farming WQ’s for gear cause you are geared just well enough to do raids, which will outperform anything I can get from WQ’s now.
And then there’s the vault. My best WQ drop was a 207 crossbow, a friend got his BiS non-raid weapon in the form of a 254/245 bow.
Point is: your idea is pretty much already in place, except that the gear you get from raids is works far better in anything but PVP and even then the difference is pretty minimal.
So it would be far more limiting if we went with your exact idea(And I have your post in front of me right now so I can see the “have the ilvl scale if you reach a threshold” bit. I’ll get to that)
And then essentially be locked out of every other activity there is unless they want to invest just as much time into any other activity as they did the first. It would artificially increase the amount of time spent grinding. And I’ve seen enough threads here to know there’s a genuine good amount of people that want LESS grind overall.
Honestly, this doesn’t sound so bad.
Going back to what I previously said:
Good people can make bad arguments. Well here we have the opposite. A bad person making a good argument/suggestion.
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Ahh tahra that naked greed showing through again. Trying to couch want as need.
Remember all those tine I’ve called you entitled? This is why.
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For you that may be the case. I did not interpret your remarks as such, though.
Get lost.
You don’t know me better than I know myself.
Don’t assume. Simple. If you don’t understand something; ask.
God, I’m so tired of people like that on these forums. Always jumping to conclusions while more often than not they just don’t have any comprehensive reading skills.
I DID NOT.
And I’ve said as much. So stop saying I did.
READ.
Nothing vague about them. Above your head; yeah possibly.
Sorry I don’t write my posts for the lowest common denominator.
Loooool. Wow.
That’s not how life works buddy.
That was AN EXAMPLE. Really, your reading comprehension is low. Extremely low.
It wasn’t an argument in that sense. It was an example to show how ‘deserving’ something in a game works. The developers choose what to reward. And then when you do that task, whatever it is, you deserve that reward.
That was literally all that remakt meant. But clearly you needed this extra explanation.
You are describing the current situation. My proposed plan is for a clean slate.
None of this Shadowlands nonsense.
So how it is right now is completely irrelevant.
Also:
It really, really isn’t.
There’s that reading comprehension, or rather lack thereof, again.
More limiting? Yeah if you do the high end of the current ‘big 3’, yes. Because with that gear you’re pretty much set in ANY other content. And THAT is not fair, not balanced.
Just because you raid, doesn’t mean you should have awesome gear in PvP or M+ or in world content.
No, not ‘as’ much. But time sure.
That makes all the sense in the world: You get better stuff for doing ‘content A’ by doing ‘content A’. How is that not the most logical thing ever?
You’re not locked out at all. You just can’t jump in at the high end. You have to earn your way to the top. And imo there’s nothing wrong with that.
Doing the content you enjoy.
Funny you call that grinding.
Again; doing the content you want. Is not considered as such.
The complaints are mainly about having to do all sorts of side content to earn AP (whether that means Artifact Points, Azerite Power or Anima Power isn’t even relevant).
THAT would no longer be a thing. You like doing ‘content A’, do ‘content A’ and earn power in ‘content A’.
You had to put an insult in there huh?
I just want to be able to enjoy the content I like doing. I like character progression just as much as the next guy, but I’d prefer to be able to play stuff I actually think is fun.
If you call that entitled, then you’re trully completely clueless. Borderline insane.
But then again, you basically troll any thread you post in by agitating people, so maybe it’s just that. Well in that case; I’m not biting. /hug
No, they are not but it seems you’ve made a crusade against this one, so her point is valid. Why are you here? Just to complain?
You call people a troll with a straight face when you call people “minmaxing clowns” or whatever drivel it is you came up with.
Hypocrite.
And you get character progression, you just progress to a lower level because you flat out refuse to do harder stuff.
Also, borderline insane? Wish you’d kept up with your promise to quit the forums. The usual lack of consistency from you. Col our me surprised.
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No, I do not. that’s true, I only know what you say based on what you have said.
If you keep encountering people who lack comprehensive reading skills, maybe the issue isn’t them but you… Considering the only consistent factor in such a case is you.
Yes you did. It is quite LITERALLY THERE, IN A QUOTE BY YOURSELF. Just stop it.
If there wasn’t we wouldn’t be having this discussion then would we?
As a hypothetical example, if you tell me to do something. I do it, but you get angry I didn’t do it just as you wanted. The fault lies with you for not being clear enough on what you wanted. The responsibility of clear communication does not lie with the listener, it lies with the speaker.
You literally do not have the right to be upset about people understanding you wrong when you are being intentionally vague. Get real.
Doesn’t matter since the “example” is part of the philosophy you’re on about.
Fine, a discussive projection then if you wish. I don’t care what you call it.
yeah it sorta already is. In a very limiting way. With the exception being that Raid gear is useful in all situations instead of just in raids and then being flat out useless in PVP, PVE and open world. I already explained this, but you left that part out of the quote.
As it should be. I invested time into my current gear by playing the appropriate content. It is totally fair in the current system. Just cause you think it’s not fair doesn’t mean it.
Yes it does. It literally does. In the ladder, Mythic raiding is at the peak in terms of powerful gear. If you do the best content you should have the best gear. Why is this concept so hard to understand? If you do nothing but say, mythic Zer0 dungeons, you will get rewards appropriate for that content, which will be enough for that content.
That is very fair. What isn’t fair is someone who invensted 1000 hours into WQ’s and thus can do everything solo while someone who invested the same number of hours into objectively harder content, cannot.
that’s not what I said and you know it. I said “essentially locked out” cause that’s basically what you are if you jump from only doing raids into say, dungeons. You’ll start from the beginning.
Funny you should mention that, cause that’s what I’m doing right now with raiding but APPARENTLY that’s an issue… You can’t cherry-pick with this hypocrisy.
Yes, I do. Cause someone who doesn’t enjoy doing world quests will have to grind that stuff out, in other words. Artificially increasing the time spent grinding.
Doing the content you want while being “locked out” at the beginning in other activities.
You brought that upon yourself.
Besides, that’s a factual. You took it personal first, me calling you out as a bad person isn’t an insult. I mean, do you not call your teacher a teacher when/if you had one?
I would think not since you consider pointing out fact an insult.
‘people’?
No; you. I was talking to and about ‘you’.
And whatever I called others, doesn’t matter because I don’t do it to troll. I’m just being honest. Brutal and not-really-a-nice-type-of-honest. But still honest.
Not enough. Not that I need BIG numbers perse, but I do like keeping busy in the game with a worthy goal.
I’m willing to do ‘harder world content’ to progress.
That’s what I’ve also been suggesting.
Pretty much.
I see the /hug didn’t help.
Must be hard being you.
I very rarely get annoyed on here, but jeez Lillith I wish you would quit these forums. Why the heck are you still here moaning about anything and everything??
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Who is a casual player? M+ up to 20+ keys and fully cleared HC raid?
DINGDINGDING.
We have an elitist, ladies and gentlemen.
I figured as much, but I had to wait for proof.
We are done talking because you just want to feel better than others.
You don’t care about anything else.
Just because you do a raid, doesn’t mean you should be better in other content by default. That’s beyond arrogant and selfish.
MORE PROOF. Elitist detected!
FOR THAT CONTENT sure. But not for other stuff. That’s stupid and insulting game design.
Raiding isn’t ‘special’. It’s just ‘different content’.
HAHAHHAHAHAHA. Yeahhhhhh sure… OH NOES, the elitist status quo is threatened.
We can’t have that! Get lost.
And why is that a bad thing? Ohhhh because YOU FEEL YOU ARE SUPERIOR AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUMP IN AT THE TOP… I FORGOT FOR A MOMENT… YOU’RE AN ELITIST!
To the top of ‘whatever it is you’re doing’.
Again; just because you raid, doesn’t mean you’re better or should be better in all other content. It just doesn’t.
FOR WHAT?! Omg, you’re not only elitist, but you’re dumb too.
Mmmh that’s actually not surprising.
Why would you need to ‘grind that stuff out’? For what?! There’s no reason to with the system I’m proposing. No need to do content you don’t like. None. Zero.
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Nor do you
What a sad little person you are… Here’s a news flash, these people you look down on in contempt, they dont realize you exist. you mean nothing to them, and the only way they influence your gameplay is because you think what they do matters to you in any way.
Regardless of what you do, you wont ever be in a sitiuation where you’re grouped with the “elite”. So how they make groups or play the game does nothing to you.
And as they dont, you dont deserve that gear 
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