Obligatory Daily: Arms Mastery Sucks

Well you’re right, we didn’t need to prove you wrong- You did that fine on your own.

And then Blizzard did it too.

Grats.

You keep talking about me bringing up priest as performance- When, again, it was you who originally brought it up.

Here’s the message:

You’re the one who started this all. All I told you was that, among others, raw performance doesn’t matter spit if it feels like you’re sliding down a waterslide made of sandpaper. And you decided to go crazy and start telling anybody who asks changes for the sake of wanting their specs to actually feel good instead of just for buffs to performance is a whiner and needs to adapt.

And then Blizzard comes in and punches you in your face saying the exact opposite and proving us right, much like the career of Ronda Roysey, so it’s appropriate you should bear the name.

Nobody said a word about the numerical performance until you entered the thread. You made it all about a problem nobody brought up.

I slept very well thanks to the news yesterday- Doesn’t seem you had the same luxury.

I do play it, else I wouldn’t post about the class.

They didn’t buff it, they changed it. Look at the blue response. It says “changed”. It doesn’t say “buffed”.

Or again, are you saying Blizzard is wrong and you are right?

Yes or no will do.

Because it doesn’t matter what you think. It doesn’t matter that you think its a buff or not (nobody knows yet, as you yourself said in this very quote yourself:)

You said this will nerf warriors to the ground- But now you say its a buff. Contradicting yourself again.

You can say that moon is made of cheese but you’re still wrong. You and I, and everybody else can see Blizzard’s response. They said they changed it. They didn’t say they buffed it. That’s their words, the literal words of the people making this game. You are just a random hobo over the internet, your opinion doesn’t count.

It’s not the same mastery. Do you have eyes?

The other one deals damage through bleeds.

The other one deals damage through increasing the damage you deal on targets that are bleeding.

Those are not the same thing at all. Blizzard says so. You are wrong.

Current mastery doesn’t increase overall damage. It just deals damage. That’s a significant difference.

Longer duration is also a change- But not because the bleed deals more damage. In fact, if you look, the scaling of the bleed was reduced significantly, because bleed is not going to be the main source of damage.

Whether it will deal more damage or not is not known yet, as you yourself said:

If you take a car, melt it down, and make another car out of it, is it still the same car?

Do i have to tell you 100 times more that its same mastery + increases damage done?

Wall of text ignored!
Go hide, in shame. :laughing:

The damage in current mastery is done by bleeds alone. The mastery counts for a good 40%, if not more of your total damage. That is what people took issue with. The abilities themselves dealt no sufficient damage. Abilities like execute and mortal strike hit like wet noodles. Our damage is good, but it is unsatisfying.

The new mastery retains the bleed utility, but shifts the damage -away- from the bleed damage, to the main abilities of the warrior, by buffing the damage they deal to the bleeding targets.

It makes all the difference. In the former mastery, the damage is dealt -by- the bleed. In the new one, the damage is dealt by the abilities, thanks to the bleed.

Can you agree to that?

Yes in recount, now once its active it will increase all damage done even from trinks+covenants by 9%?

Therefore the main source of damage will be again mastery but blizzard changed the way it shows on recount so Non L2P LFR heroes will complain.

Its the same.

But that’s not the point. The bleed is not dealing the damage- The abilities are.

Example:

Lets say the warrior is dealing 100kk damage in total to a target. Ignoring corruptions, essences and azerite traits, that 100k damage comes from the warriors baseline abilities and mastery.

In the current iteration, that 100k damage comes -mainly- from the bleed damage of the mastery, over 6 seconds. Let’s say for the sake of the argument it’s 60k out of the 100k damage, so thats 60% of the damage coming from your bleeds.

What that means that the actual abilities you press feel very lacking in impact, to a lot of people. When you hit someone with execute or mortal strike, you want their health to go down then and there by a large chunk- Not over 6 seconds. That’s the issue here.

Now we take the new mastery. We’ll use the same example.

Instead of that 60% out of 100k dps coming from bleeds, what now happens is that, for example, only about 10 to 20k (10-20%) of the damage comes from bleeds- While the main source of your damage (80 - 90k, 80 to 90%) comes from your actual abilities, as they are buffed by the bleed to deal that damage.

That means that your mortal strike actually hits hard and proper, like it should. It feels good, because you expect that an ability like mortal strike should feel like it really hurts the enemy, rather than whacking them with a noodle.

In both cases, they deal the same 100k damage, ideally- But how that damage is formed, is very different.

It’s more like the damage is dealt by the abilities, as my example shows, rather than the mastery. The mastery has turned from dealing the damage to buffing your damage. AFAIK it’s actually in a way a hybrid between MoP/WoD mastery and Legion mastery, because it puts the focus of your damage back to your main abilities, while also having a window of opportunity- But this time, the window is not tied to RNG and you can basically maintain it infinitely on the target.

The bleed procs, increases all damage done. Damage AFTER proc.
Therefore the mastery is the main source of damage but blizzard changed ONLY HOW IT LOOKS on recount. If mastery dont proc? No damage increase.

Eitherways, blizzard trolled the whiners.
They just changed how the arms warrior damage looks on recount. Mastery is still the source of damage.

Wall of text ignored.

Yes, exactly!

The damage increases after the proc, but if you look at the value at which the bleed deals the damage, its value has been significantly decreased- I think arcana showcased it earlier it went from 1000 to something like a 100 or so.

So that means, that in proportion, the damage of your bleeds is significantly lower than the damage from your now buffed main abilities. Both are buffed, true, but the damage from the bleeds will be really small- The only purpose the bleed really seems to be there for is to give that window of opportunity and to have a bleed on a target- Which is great against stealthing enemies.

Nobody ever contested that? Mastery obviously still allows you to deal that damage- But rather than -dealing- that damage, it -buffs- your damage. And that buffed damage, mainly, comes from your main abilities, instead of the bleed.

There’s nothing troll about that. It’s exactly what people asked for: People wanted their abilities to hit harder on impact. The damage, ideally, should be the same as it is now, but what that turns out to be nobody can tell.

And you are right, it will look different on recount, and thats exactly what people wanted! They want the recount to show that now majority of their damage comes from their mortal strike, instead of deep wounds.

Therefore, the damage source IS the proc.
If there is no proc? No damage increase AKA mastery is still the source.

That means they changed how overall damage look on recount.

You really fail to understand it?
Wall of text ignored.

Okay, an example:

If a priest enters the voidform, and deals damage during voidform, is that damage dealt by the voidform, or by the abilities in the voidform?

The voidform buffs your abilities- But it doesn’t actually deal the damage. Yes, it makes it possible for those abilities to deal that damage, but it doesn’t deal that damage for example. If for example you do not use any damaging abilities during voidform, it wont deal any damage.

The same is here with this new mastery: You wont really deal much damage at all if you dont actually actively hit the target with your abilities, unlike with the current mastery.

YES. EXACTLY.

Now, instead of your damage looks like its coming from deep wounds, it looks like its coming from mortal strike.

That’s exactly what people asked for! We didn’t ask for Blizzard to buff or nerf arms damage. We just asked it to look different. That’s it. You’re getting the point.

It took 219 posts but you finally said it. I have no more quarrel with you, since we agree.

Not really.

Mastery is still the source, blizzard fooled you whiners to not ruin the spec.
They did nothing more than changing how it looks on recount.

You whined about the mastery, its still the mastery that does all the job. Not the abilities.

Call it fooling or w/e you want, that’s up to you, but we got what we wanted! That’s all we care about.

The damage actually now looks on recount that it comes from our main abilities, exactly like you said.

I hope the damage is as good as now, but if it isn’t, that’s also fine- I just care about my mortal strike hitting hard and proper when I click it, instead of a wet noodle, with the damage following afterwards.

And that’s all that was needed. We just asked them to change our mastery so it functions and looks different- But, the end result is the exact same. Just like you said.

Well, this is a semantics argument but if you want to hold onto your stance that a buff = Damage, then that is up to you, I won’t bother with that because frankly it doesn’t matter- The end result is the exact same.

I mean, this is exactly what Blizzard said themselves:

“We’d like to call out that Arms’ Mastery and Deep Wounds have been redesigned. We heard your feedback that Deep Wounds’ overwhelming contribution to the damage breakdown felt unrewarding, and we agree. The new design will be a much smaller proportion of Arms’ direct damage, and should reward skillful target selection more than the previous version.”

To be fooled and have still the mastery as main source of damage but the Recount list different? :laughing:

Good for you then, another excuse for your trash tier claims as the ones you made above!

Thats your brain on wanting something useless to change to a spec that works like a charm. Better ruin it, than you look bleed topping meters…

Well, you agreed with the statement, so I have no issues with it. I don’t think there’s any fooling around, since Blizzard clearly state that they did it because people didn’t like the way the mastery dealt damage through bleeds- Instead, now the mastery makes your abilities deal the damage more up-front, direct, as the post says.

But, if you think we’ve been fooled, that’s okay.

100k is still 100k, I just cared about how that damage is generated. Nobody ever said otherwise.

As I said, I’d much rather play a spec I genuinely enjoy that does worse than the other specs, than play a spec that does really well but I loathe to play: e.g. Demon hunter.

You and I both (I assume) wish that arms will do as good or better as it does in BFA, whether that turns out to be the case is another story.

That you got fooled?
Yes i agree.

You had a brown box and you didnt want it, blizzard colored red and you like it.
Its still a box though.

Damage still is generated from deep wounds. That is never going to change. :rofl:

Yes, but now it is a red box- It’s changed fundamentally from a brown to a red box. It’s still a mastery, it still gives us damage, but it just allows us to deal the damage differently now.

So yeah, call it a fooling if you like. I think it’s great.

Yeah, but not from the bleed damage. That’s great.

Edit: Also I wouldn’t bet on “never” because Blizzard can just make a complete u.turn and decide to just make our mastery like it is for all other specs: Flat increase to all damage abilities, increased by mastery. You never know.

That is still a box…

Nope, it comes from mastery still.
No mastery proc? No damage TO EVERYTHING :rofl:

Yep, nobody ever said arms shouldn’t have a mastery, AKA a box.

Yeah, it comes from the mastery, just not from the bleeds, exactly as you said.