Old School Dawn [Interest Check]

Argent Dawn
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Hello all,

I would like to introduce another topic which I’ve been thinking about for a while now. I’m going to keep this post brief,

Intro

‘Old-School Dawn’ is an idea, a sort of revivalist initiative about creating a community that unites players who feel disconnected or dissatisfied with the current style of roleplay.

Recognisably, the shift in roleplay trends may leave some players feeling out of place or unfulfilled. The initiative aims to provide a welcoming space for these individuals, offering a return to the type of roleplay that emphasizes collaboration, character depth, and immersive events & storytelling. (I miss Ironforge haha)

It’s important to clarify that this project is not intended to criticize/diminish the current RP scene on Argent Dawn. I have immense respect for the roleplayers and guilds who continue to enrich the server’s ever-vibrant and evolving community! The range of creative storytelling and styles present today is something deeply appreciated, and I recognize that many players enjoy and thrive within modern roleplay formats. Simply, it’s just not for me.

However, Old-School Dawn caters to those who long for a more grounded, character-driven experience that harkens back to a slower-paced style of roleplay. It’s understandable that the modern scene has different focuses, but this is simply offering an alternative for those seeking a more nostalgic experience. The aim is to create an inclusive space for people who want to revisit this style, while coexisting peacefully and respectfully with the broader roleplaying community.
(Just to make it clear, this ain’t no time travel venture)

Theme

Old-School Dawn is a roleplay revival initiative inspired by the storytelling themes and community spirit of the Wrath of the Lich King/Cataclysm era. Its purpose is to unite guilds and players through collaborative, immersive narratives that focus on grounded characters and shared experiences. Included with throwback events which tail back to your classic events of Warcraft, whether it be about Lothar, Dwarves… list goes on.

Rather than focusing on heroic feats, it’s like everyday characters—soldiers, survivors, and adventurers—working together in a world full of challenges. This initiative aims to recreate the strong sense of community and character development from the past, while fully respecting and adapting to the current World of Warcraft lore. Furthermore, it would be used as a platform or outlet for immersion to be brought to the likes of Stormwind City.

What about Classic WoW?

In brief, Classic presents numerous challenges which are caused by the layering and phasing on each realm. It disrupts the necessary environment for roleplay on classic to thrive on, making it nearly impossible to create any sustainable scene. Classic also comes without the shield of certainty, which retail provides. Perhaps if Season of Discovery gets a settled phasing, this community could aim to be a precursor to that (I have no idea)

How would this work?

Organically, discord would be operated for the organisation and communication of events/public gatherings, campaigns etc. Whilst Argent Archives can be used m to document characters’ stories, diaries, letters, and personal reflections, which help give depth to the current state of affairs in the scene. I’m happy to go into much further detail, but in essence it’s a roleplay community much like any other.

And finally, it’s not intended to be a grand-scale project with overarching plans or a single centralized narrative, or even a hierarchy. Instead, it is a grassroots effort aimed at providing a space for roleplayers who share a common vision of nostalgic, character/guild-driven storytelling. It aims to create threads and hooks for the RP scene, and would not intend to create a closed-off bubble.

Let me know your thoughts or concerns down below!
Thanks.

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I literally do not remember now being any different than it was back in WOTLK minus the focus point of lore and the amount of RPers about.

I’ve read a lot of word salad, but the repeatiing of “themes and community” but… what is different now than back then, because I just don’t see it

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I completely understand where you’re coming from, and it’s a valid observation. One of the key differences today seems to be the focus of the roleplay. Take Stormwind, for example—the roleplaying community there has certainly struggled, and there could be a long list of reasons why. However, one of the main principles that stands out is the lack of cross-guild storytelling. Not necessarily in the form of large, dungeon-mastered events, but more in terms of organic, interconnected stories between guilds.

I want to emphasize that this is a bit of a generalization, and it’s not intended to diminish the current roleplaying scene or point fingers.

One of those differences lies in roleplay etiquette. Whether it’s staying in character, respecting lore and other players’ stories, promoting collaboration over competition, portraying balanced characters, or respecting both IC (in-character) and OOC (out-of-character) boundaries—these elements seem to have shifted. In particular, open event participation is key, ensuring that everyone feels included and able to contribute meaningfully to the shared experience.

Most open events I see nowadays tend to be more about social gatherings—like Love is in the Air, feasts, and similar celebrations. While these can be fun, they often feel like once the event ends, that’s it—there’s no lasting impact. Personally, what I really enjoyed were events that emerged naturally from the roleplay around them or ones that had a lasting effect on character growth. For example, a mission to Blackrock to face a dragon with a group of called-upon mercenaries, or events that feel rooted in more classic, adventure-driven storytelling.

That’s exactly what this initiative is aiming to bring back—some good old-fashioned fun and immersion, with events that inspire character development etc etc

One of the coolest events back then was hiding in a barn in Tarren Mill for five days, avoiding Forsaken patrols. At night, then would sneak in and grab apples, testing if they were rotten first. Very simple but effective

Personally, I enjoy these sorts of things, and I imagine there are other players who do too.

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These things still happen, though they go unseen when people sit in a roof all day and refuse to interact with the larger server community to see them flourish.

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I think you’d benefit from providing a small list of example events that you would like such a community to run, accompanied by short paragraphs that explain how they deviate from the current style of roleplay.

People will no doubt disagree with you and provide counter-arguments, but this will help you refine and define what sort of roleplay you would like such a community to provide.

For example, you recently posted this thread:

While I think that seems like a reasonable and interesting event (even if it’s not relevant to my interests), it also strikes me as a social gathering, the sort of open event that occurs nowadays that you claim has no lasting impact. Could you explain what would be different about such an event and how it would provide a more old school experience?

If that particular event is not connected to your desire for a more old school roleplaying community, could you provide other examples that are? Like Corpseburner said, your examples of going on an adventure to kill a dragon and hiding from patrols are still events that occur, just within guilds, campaigns or friend groups, rather than naturally and organically occurring in open communities without preparation. This is because such events are typically better with planning, preparation and an audience that the event-runner is familiar with, so they know what to plan for, what to include and what to exclude.

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The first thing that comes to my mind is that there are no institutions anymore. There is no church guild, no well known and respected guard guild, no court, no guild that, for example, provides a postal/runner service. I think the variety of guild themes has slimmed down, and most guilds are just adventurers or mercenaries now, running their own campaigns. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but it does reduce the community “feel.”

The second thing that comes to my mind is probably just related to numbers; there are no large serverwide and interfaction campaigns anymore, and with the war between the factions having ended, there is little reason to organize RP-PvP events. It can still be done, but it’s hard to find a viable IC reason.

I also feel that people have gotten more closed off and more set in their own ways, and less thoughtful of ideas that don’t align with their own. The first reaction, in general, is to scoff, rather than to give whatever is said some thought.

Maybe the game just doesn’t really allow “old school” roleplay anymore.

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There is quite literally a massive inter-faction server-wide epic RP campaign happening right now. It started on Tuesday and lasts until next week, with a minimum of three separate and simultaneously DM’d events each night that each fill a raid group and base/camp RP around it. Zyretha, as overall DM, is doing a fantastic job and there are too many other individual DMs to shout out by name. The community RP feel is insanely good.

So, this type of RP IS happening, has been happening and will continue to happen. Where it is happening and how one accesses it are the questions that the OP should be thinking about, assuming it doesn’t actually just boil down to ‘I don’t like the style of RP in Stormwind’.

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I guess I missed it. I’m happy to hear such events are still happening!

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Hit the nail on the head, remember the City Watch and the plots that would happen around that. This is exactly what I mean!

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Argent Archives and several different Community Discord servers exist and I’m pretty certain another thread here somewhere lists these ways to get or stay in contact with what any of the diverse, flavour-rich communities on Argent Dawn are getting up to at any moment.

There are different styles of RP for sure and no one person is obligated to enjoy all of them. Duskwood isn’t my cup of tea, while Stormwind is somewhere I only go for social RP to meet new people when I have the energy to deal with all the chaos-infused utter madness that inevitably springs up. Orgrimmar hasn’t really recovered from the various debacles that impacted publicly accessible RP there. The idea that because one is not meeting a form of RP that it is not happening anymore though is strange.

Where and how people RP has changed. The server culture has evolved and the way people plan, prepare and communicate about their events has largely shifted to Discord and Argent Archives. One can like that or not like it, but if one intends to offer something different then it would be a lot more practical (and likely to meet with success) to post about it with actual information about the type of RP and community the OP intends to build, along with details on how and where it would run.

Otherwise it’s just word salad to state a broad dissatisfaction. Most people are going to shrug their shoulders at that, say ‘okay?’ and move on.

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Here’s a question: what is “old school” roleplay to you, and how does it differ from modern WoW (TWW) roleplay? What was so different then that we do not have now?

I’ve been around for a good while myself and I cannot say I think roleplay is so much more different now than it was in WotLK/Cataclysm – yes, numbers might be fewer and the same guild concepts that existed back then don’t exist any more. For the rest, I really can’t remember much of a difference. What was so different then that we do not have now?

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Over time, a lot of institution guilds have ran their reputations into the ground by misusing the inherent trust and authority present in their concepts.
I think we don’t have them nowadays because your fellow roleplayer is twice shy in placing their fate or even a little bit of their time into the hands of strangers who have by and large demonstrated they shouldn’t be trusted with such responsibility.

As the name implies, institution guilds that propelled themselves to the pinnacle of their respective area of interest either through numbers/ widespread presence, or just taking the time to build a reputation for themselves have come and went but the lingering aftermath is that whomever’s left in the RP landscape isn’t exactly eager to have a repeat of that history.

I mention this because as a consequence RP has become simultaneously more widespread yet clustered (guild-centric, community-centric… even the OP seems to be about doing exactly this so the proof is right there). Nowadays, to me it feels like you RP and broaden your contacts starting with sort of 2nd-degree connections, the friend of a friend, or try to join community events / server campaigns based on word of mouth and also a little bit based on the reputation of those running these things too…

So we RP with who we know and trust to some degree to provide a good experience worthy of our invested time.

I am not saying this is necessarily good or bad, but I am saying that this is a direct outcome of the past.

That being said, I would potentially be interested in such an initiative and would like to be a member of its community, but I do have some more questions because I think such an OP needs more info.

  1. With the passage of time, even the ways we RP have advanced. One could argue that even RP events or just RP itself has been sort of ‘powercrept’, as you can utilize the use of 3rd party platforms such as Discord to enhance the experience through the use of shared playlists, created maps / art designs of whatever item or creature is confronted IC, and there’s also this habit of outsourcing “NPC chars” to other players that aren’t necessarily your guildies.

Would this old school community be more devoted to spontaneous, ad-hoc RP that isn’t so much focused on prep and “high value / effortful campaigns”, and accomplish this character depth goal by just having its members try to be… really good actors? As in, demonstrating an above average capability to improvise and ‘carry the scene’, or just contribute in a positive and mutually beneficial fashion to whatever RP is going by the clashing of these factions/guilds that inhabit the world?

  1. In the “Theme” paragraph, you mention the following

Included with throwback events which tail back to your classic events of Warcraft, whether it be about Lothar, Dwarves… list goes on. Rather than focusing on heroic feats, it’s like everyday characters—soldiers, survivors, and adventurers—working together in a world full of challenges.

And while the “rotten apples at night, in Forsaken lands” example is mentioned, I have to ask if you have anything more specific in mind, because would you just expect the community to impose a certain standard of RP, and expect the participating guilds (whatever race / concept they are) to adhere to it? Or does this community also come with an origin point of grounded concept, and even a guild one could join.

I ask because I identify a risk of losing focus and failing to achieve the proposed goals, as even a multiracial guild or collective of guilds would verge on a sort of Dalaran-esque environment where the challenges you speak of end up being approached by a sort of “D&D Party”-like assembly of characters, rather than something more structured or cohesive.

It is also because, as a few have already pointed out in this thread, we already have all of these in the guise of: a community, a hub, and ongoing periodic server campaigns.

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I just can’t help but feel like you’ve written a lot of words and haven’t really said anything. What do you actually mean with this initiative? What specifically are you looking to achieve?

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Several institutions have died a death of late because of problems with :

  • leaders who insist on all guild members being present all the time with guild events to the exclusion of ALL other RP;
  • IC corruption, bullying and other negative impacts on characters without their consent;
  • insufficient numbers of people able to manage and run a guild on a daily basis, especially not in a way that lives up to the initial vision of the founder;
  • insufficient variation for RP on a daily basis;
  • far too many people ignoring the NPC mechanisms of the city. Just because -players- are not online does not mean that a Guard HQ is empty/can be robbed/bombed.

What has happened to the Guards in Stormwind is particularly sad but I for one won’t go near any of those guilds again.

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I think you are hitting the nail on the head.

Yes, this distrust and skepticism is a result of how AD evolved and oftentimes of past interactions, but it comes at the cost of accessibility and a more centered and structured community feel. I also feel that it has made OOC more important than IC, and that IC is taken for OOC more often than before.

I feel that some of the issues, distrust and grudges people have can be solved by having a mature conversation with each other. Maybe I’m being a tad naive here, but it’s a game, and most people are reasonable.

That said, I’m quite pleased and impressed by the communities that have arisen in certain parts of the world.

As for the OP’s proposal, I agree with the other posters. I’m not really certain of how this is going to work and what the exact aim is. I -think- I know what you mean, but I’m not sure how this will be different from other communities.

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For the most part I agree. I think most of the time people can be the adults that they probably are and put differences aside, but there’s always going to be some that just aren’t - people who want to always have their characters win over other people’s, or those who just get really obsessive over other people’s characters and/or past digressions.

I like to imagine those people I’ve described are the minority but there’s certainly enough of them out there.

I’ll be honest, a lot of this seems like nostalgia. Nostalgia for when Argent Dawn wasn’t run by X clique or Y group or Z mentality. I didn’t play back then but I genuinely find it hard to believe that the “before” times were as drama or incident free as a lot of the older crowd tends to portray them as.

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Some of the oldest Argent Archives posts and events are of guild cliques forming IC and waging flat out War of the Five Kings-type conflicts with each other, so, I am sorry to say, but we are talking of an Argent Dawn that never was.

Argent Dawn has grown to be distant from each other because it is a far easier task to simply enjoy the hobby they log on for with likeminded people while skipping the step of interacting with folks they’d rather not do so with. Sometimes, this stews from a matter of preference, like simply not liking or agreeing with what they roleplay, but more often than not, it’s other things.

Other things such as folks being unsavoury, pushy, claiming quasi-canon ruling positions and severely breaking the lore with the RP position equivalent of a ‘I can do what I want’ permit to fit their tastes and get away with it by sheer guild numbers, or a ‘resolve it IC’, knowing full well that they’ll skidaddle away should this attempt of ‘resolving it IC’ be done - or that it most likely won’t even materialize into anything, because who solves not wanting to acknowledge something utterly lorebreaking by interacting with it further?

The Argent Dawn of today is no cause. It is a consequence of the Argent Dawn that really was.

If you want the Argent Dawn of today to match the utopia of an Argent Dawn in which ‘drama’ didn’t exist, (because you were too young, or too new to the server, to get entangled in the dollhouse drama of thirty-somethings,) the only answer isn’t to look outward, but to look inward.

Encourage people to interact with the setting in a meaningful way, engage in roleplay that earnestly wants everyone involved to have fun and not for you to have fun at the expense of others, do something other than simply trying to find a way to put the blindfold back on, and be a better, kinder version of yourself.

Do these things and be kind in spite of those who aren’t, and I assure you, the Argent Dawn that existed nowhere but in people’s heads will look a lot closer to the Argent Dawn we have today - or at least, far closer to it than the alternative of pretending that we’re still in Pre-Ventrilo social media times and hoping that somehow does it.

There is nothing more adult than recognizing that there is no need to put up with the presence of folks who make a habit of souring your day and your hobbies online.

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Oh, they definitely weren’t. In a way, with a lower population, AD has gotten a lot more laid back and friendly. RP was ultra competitive at the time, and while I miss some parts of those days, I’m far from romanticizing them, or wanting those days back. Some parts were better, some parts were worse.

Absolutely, though, on the other hand. I have been too quick to dismiss some people in the past, and, when I met them again, they turned out to be gems. It’s complicated, I guess.

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That’s kind of where I’m at. I’ve burned a lot of bridges, some of them I very much stand by, some of them a lot less so.

Also there’s maturity in realising that you’re the one not matching the vibe and accepting that as well - not every guild’s gonna be for you, not every guild environment is going to be something you’re comfortable with. Sometimes it’s best to bow out.

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Nah, you actually must interact with players and groups even when their ideas, ideals and views are the same tired ones they have had for the past decade and whose digital footprint insults your intelligence or is plain vomit-inducing. Curating your online experience is cowardly. :slight_smile: