One Evil vs. the Other

Argent Dawn
21

I agree with alot of things in this post, but I will say the ‘‘PG 12’’ Argument is still a valid argument, but whatever I have to say is not really that important. Im not a GM nor do I work for Blizzard.
Much like the saying: ‘‘If you see ERP in public then report it through the report system. Send a ticket to a GM if you have a need for a conversation and/or affirmation, then move on with your lives.’’

It’s not really our job to take these matters. Sure you can say you don’t like these people for doing things like this in public, but unless you report on it nothing will get done with it. If you see ERP in public report the graphic sentence, and let a Blizzard employee review it.
Taking a screenshot is only to bring harm upon the people involved, and uss as people have no idea if this has been dealt with or not. We have no idea personaly if a Blizzard employee has gotten this sorted out. We’re not held responsable for their actions.

Either way. Well written Neeroz

22

Well put, Neeroz. Well put.

1 Like
23

Its a blade that cuts both ways, my biggest dislike of people who name and shame is that most of them are willing to play that card while living in denial or reporting people when it is their turn to be the victim of such things, being caught red handed doing unsavory behaviour.

This mob mentality is very toxic and frankly counter-productive to the health of AD’s community. Playing a witch hunt for people and looking for names to shun eventually leads to some pretty big ones, including the ring leaders of said witch hunts.

Ive seen it before, the same old names, circles, people in the “big league” of social elite who are known on the server, start filing reports, insulting others and then when something equally unsavory comes out about them, they say “yeah well its fine if I do it.”

Its disgusting that people even think thats a compelling defence, if you’re going to play this whole name and shame game, be prepared to accept when its your turn, its your head.

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24

Public ERP, NSFW information and images on ones TRP are equally as damaging to the community as people who form lynch mobs against people who ERP in private and often times mind their own business within their own odd communities.

If you find it, report it.

You’re not making Argent Dawn a better place by hunting these people down. If you want to help with this ‘crusade’, become an employee at Blizzard to help moderate the servers.

That being said. People who partake in bestiality and paedophilia among some other things in their ERP are people to be reported, avoided, and be weary of. Let’s just hope they stick to doing it in their fantasy games instead of in real life.

(Throwing an edit in here). What I do also find hilarious and embarrassing at the same times is when people partake in their unhealthy amount of ERP AND go about trying to make peoples lives that much less enjoyable by trying to publicly embarrass them for ERPing, when they themselves are, say…horsing around?

Everyone needs to grow up a bit. See the real world.

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25

How do people know to stay away from these disgusting people if the community isn’t made aware of them?

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26

“If you dislike x matter, you are also secretly practicing it yourself!!”
more great arguments at 8

I disagree. We’ve successfully in the past driven people to either leave the server or go into hiatus over really despicable things they did in the game. The server’s been better off without them.

I’d expect no less! I’ve done my share of bad and questionable things for one, and I’ve openly renounced them and changed my behavior.

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27

Now I don’t want to justify public lynching of people, who have that - I just want to clarify that Blizzard’s position regarding NSFW information in TRP* in BfA hasn’t changed at all, despite the fact that the developer of TRP* added the function of reporting profiles to Blizzard directly. If you submit that via the ticket - GMs tell you to report that via an in-game function, yet when you do exactly that - there is just no reaction.

*I do not know if that also covers MRP and XRP.

28

Lets not pretend that yesterdays events were done to ‘protect the children’ or ‘for the good of the community’, both were clearly just ways for people to get even over some slight, dislike or grudge.

Hell in the ‘stalker’ case they made a whole bunch of accusations and then just posted ERP screenshots, with nothing else to back up their claims.

Which correct me if I’m wrong, is like holding up pictures of some one being a pervert, and then claiming it also proves that they are an embezzler like you claim?

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29

You think people being made aware of them actually achieves anything? Most people dont read the forums half the time, heck I spend less than 5% of my yearly time paying half an attention to them.

Discords are also often dependant on those actually present for them which many may not be, its actually surpisingly ineffective to name and shame for another very good reason.

I also disagree with your statement of driving people to leave the server or go into hiatus, most people just faction swap which is the fastest way to fade into obscurity when someone harrasses them, its beyond ineffective to try to name and shame someone that isnt even there anymore.

But thats when it gets uglier, because then you realize you’re actions have actually driven them underground and let them continue what they’re doing. In essence you’re not helping the situation one bit by reporting them, you’re just giving them a way to dissappear.

Also, being proud of something like driving people to leave a server is the ultimate admittance that theres something wrong with your method. That kind of tactic runs a danger of hurting the wrong person and ive seen that be the case too. Victims are caught in these games and not everyone was guilty of anything at the time.

So honestly theres no actual benefit to what you do except by saying its out there you’ve done it. What do you plan on doing next, finding these players in game and harrassing them? That would pretty much be a surefire way of getting yourself banned from the game, nevermind the forums.

So in truth, what do you actually accomplish with this lynchmob mentality?

  • You drive people underground, letting them continue their charades and disturbing behaviour on new characters.
  • You yourselves look like incompitent and utterly reprehencable thugs that eventually become the victims of your own bullying tactics and get the same done to you.
  • Your reputation will be known after that by its habitual exposing nature meaning people wont share any details on such things with you, you dont even get to find out half the exposing information you need to reveal such players to the player base.

How is any of this efficent?

If we were truly capable of destroying ERP we’d have done it a long time ago when the infamous Goldshire would have been nuked into oblivion by an anti-erp movement.

Does that not tell you something?

This doesnt work, stop using it, it doesnt even get half the things you want done, at best, you shun a specific player character and that player character vanishes and you’ve won a brief victory. But then you realize you’ve actually enabled the freakshows to fade out and return later under a new name. And because you harrassed them theres actually no way for you to get them banned because PART of the law of reporting someone to a GM is that you must NOT insight any further conflict on the matter your quite literally told to AVOID them while the GM investigates, you’re just giving blizzard a headache they dont need.

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30

Pretty much this.

Making fun of people on Discord doesn’t stop these people, if anything they’ll just hide it better.

An example. Horsegate.

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31

Wouldn’t need to stalk if ERP wasn’t present.

You’re creating a matter so fickle, instead of attacking it head on, let’s make a mess of those willing to sacrifice everything to make this server secure.

1 Like
32

So you’re willing to become non existant to achieve a phyrric victory that has no meaning? Thats exactly the problem.

You dont get anything achieved, nothing will be done, nothing will change, you’ve won, nothing.

There is no compelling argument from this PG12 “we must do something” approach crowd, because in the end you’re approach will get you banned, or you will become the victim of your own circular thinking and later be the one being shunned for some erp you did in the past you didnt want anyone knowing about.

What is the point? Because its fun to loose your accounts and accomplishment, because you think doing all this actually gets you some kind of recognition and power?

Its a fleeting power, at best one that lasts as long as you’re not caught yourself, and you will get caught, one day.

A perfect example of this is the rise and fall of Kayera, someone who used guild alliances to get what she wanted, mass harrassed people with her Bulwark and eventually got mobbed by the very poeple she allied with for trying to impose martial law in the city.

Its a brutal cycle, there is no winner take her story as an example of many others who did the same, Amarae, Hrothgarr, Niars to list a few.

There is no mob mentality that ever works out for the mob, what happens next is always the same, you get caught in your own scandals, start eating each other apart and end up back to stage one. Next the erpers you shunned start returning because the mob is gone, and thus you’re power is gone.

Again, this is not a battle you can win, this is an attrition you will loose.

So how do you deal with it? Be the better person, report it, report it to blizzard themselves, not to the forums hoping blizzard will notice because all you’re doing there is naming and shaming which is against policy, getting you banned and getting your accused a free pass.

Again, stop thinking this tactic actually achieves a single victory, because it has never worked in the history of my 14 years playing on this server.

Why else do you think the topic got locked after all?

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33

alright, I’ll bite. I know goblin gate, but what the hell is horsegate

34

The fact you dont know what it is Tehya already prooves that this name and shame policy doesnt work.

It was a historical incident involving some erper getting caught having some player engrossed in beastiality with his faithful steed which became a scandal known as Horsegate.

Also that player has to my knowladge moved onto other characters, faded out of the reach of the player base, you now have no idea who they are anymore than I do.

This is exactly why name and shame fails.

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35

I’m rolIing in way too late on this but I asked a GM about this stuff a while back and it’s definitely something they still don’t condone, at least that’s how I interpret it.

I would provide a link but unfortunately I can’t post those yet, thanks blizzard

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36

no it proves that I’ve not been around for very long. I will remember this :poop:about the goblins, and will make sure to avoid these players whenever possible.

It just works!

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37

To be honest it will most certainly be forgotten by most players by next year at most.

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A gate you use to stop Horses escaping a farm. it says it in the name, can’t you read?

39

Quite a good portion of the RP playerbase, especially the more influental ones, certainly hold presence here. Not only this, but the information from here very quickly leaks into the actual game itself.

On the contrary. It’s a platform you can’t silence and if enough people use it, that information gets broadcasted far and wide, same as with forums.

Well you can disagree all you like but there’s a reason the forums practically deleted several ERP scandal fiends over the years from the game, or despicaple people. If those people came back, they never anymore bothered the public or partook in public activities, unless changed. It’s lesser of two evils if we manage to isolate these people into raids/or dungeons, but obviously it’s better if they get so discouraged they leave the game all together. Either way, the result is better.

The Horde community practically deleted a notorious pandaren guild off the face of the community once it turned out that the guild had been turned into an ERP circle that really traumatized a lot of newcomes to pandaren RP in the Horde, or with a tauren guild that did the same. None of them have been heard of since, which is good.

There’s less/very limited amount of people they can harm in those circles, if any.

Victims are very rarely caught in the crossfire because they can very easily just distance themselves from actions like these by going “BTW I don’t agree with any of this” and/or speaking out against the people in their guild who have acted in a certain way. Even if they are, the community often comes back together to very quickly absolve them or neutralize the situation.

Benefits outweigh the negatives. End justifies the means, IMO.

Most people on these forums are really feeble and weak in terms of self confidence, and usually all it takes is a little bit of ridicule and/or satire to have already made a major impact on them.

I don’t go out actively hunting these people myself nor do I harass them in the game. I report them and then make sure to remind them/pounce on them on these forums each and every time they try to justify what they’re doing. Equally, I support them if they truly wish to change.

A better and more pure/enjoyable RP community, especially on the Horde side.

  1. They usually stay the hell away from people like us because they know we’re not tolerating that kind of behavior.
  2. I’m not saying that what I do is ideal or morally pure. I’m saying it works (which it does), and it gets me the results that I want: A better RP community. End justifies the means for me.
  3. Lmao, do you even know me? I’m literally the most infamous troublemaker of this server, Boush, and I get to know stuff all the time. My reputation is irrelevant to me, as long as it is decent/good enough around people whose views I know I can respect/have valid feedback on my behavior, I’m not swayed by mob-mentality. That’s what sets me apart from these people. I don’t get discouraged, I got a good self confidence and I adapt and change when I feel I’m in the wrong.

Except that I’ve seen people banned for goldshire TRP’s and alike, getting silences and so on. Even minor bans work to change them so they get more discouraged and discreet, which is great!

Also the rest of your point is basically not worth anything because I do none of those things. “law of reporting” lmao, what? Also, do you think these people who are so open about what they do are really some masters of disguise? Finding out their alts is hardly a task akin to finding a needle in a haystack- They stand out. Easily.

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40

Is your argument that you would prefer that cyber happens in public rather than “underground”, or am I misreading your post

So says the shadow of Xavius

People trip over themselves trying to tell me funny gossip

Just because a social ill can’t be 100% extinguished doesn’t mean that making progress towards that impossible goal isn’t a positive thing

People will always steal in real life, but that doesn’t mean stealing should be legal

As opposed to no victory

As opposed to allowing their behaviour to be normalised / letting them keep at it proudly on their character of choice

Yet by your own example the truth always comes out in the end

I don’t know about that - I recall in MoP/Cata people grew pretty pro-Cyber and would see no problem at all with it as long as it wasn’t in the middle of an RP hub. Now people who defend this stuff are - for example - reduced to posting on off-realm alts and I don’t think you could name a single guild that is traditionally considered ‘good’ on AD that doesn’t have at least some sort of policy against ERP

I’ve had a senior GM message me out of the blue thanking me for my help instead :sunglasses:

Well, sure - if your assumption is that the strawman hypocrite you’re arguing with secretly loves ERP - and sure, I guess that is true for some people but I don’t get the mentality - why would you rail against something you secretly support?

23 Likes