OneButton is better than 99% of players

Community General Discussion
341

It is needlessly complex and too many little things to stack in modifiers if care optimize. I like my arcane now but it’s just funny if would truely try minmax dmg how much it would take, I dont really even care try cause with the random stuff I press I do 3mil dps in pack of stacked guys if they let me cast but 99% time they wont, so my time goes on doing something else or trying find windows to do parts of my dmg so I cant really ever do raid boss opener either per se. On a rogue I just had castsequence macro for it in raid cause assa traditionally also had extremely annoying needlessly complex openers :smiley:

They add these little things like “20% dmg increase for next finisher if you use it in 4 seconds after another finisher” and then you have to minmax some opener around this type of designs of using few cp to gain some buff and then build max cp to utilize the buff for max rupture… just feels dumb as design and clunky in pull, its just annoying and people have always found ways to cheese them, mine were castsequence macros on pull so I get the most possible dmg out I can. I dont care think 10 buttons perfect execution with all its nuances from all the modifiers they put in there, I just cheese it with something like castsequence macros on pull and then continue with normal rotation.

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342

since you called frost mage - lets go with frost mage rotations.

according to wowhead :

ST rotation - 9 buttons presss for basic ST with multi-option to press in case of "ifs " to choose from
cleave rotation - 15 buttons to press again with multiple choose options of "if and when options "

aoe - 16 buttons to press to do basic aoe rotation most effectively - again with mutliple options during that.

who has time to learn all possible what ifs for all possible specs.

343

peopel who forcus in wow mainly on collecting transmogs mounts pets etc and just enjoying the feel of fantasy world ? withut a doubt they would.

the moment you stop spending time pushing meaningless progression in endgame - its exhilarating :slight_smile:

gear wil reset next season anyway . your scores will reset anyway .

344

I dont get why people who dont want to use OBR are bitter over people using OBR.

You want to press 30 buttons? I mean thats fine, but not everyone does nor care about it. Why are you upset over people not wanting to use obr?

I am 3k with my druid, 2800 with my elemental shaman. I aint afraid of saying that I used Hekili to reach this on my characters when I wasnt queueing up as resto.

This game is designed around it is literally unplayable without addons, and you need to read about your class outside of the game.

Elemental shaman just fels co cluttered.

Lightning Bolt for single target, Chain Lightning for AoE.
Flame Shock for Lava Burst proc and crit.
Earth Shock and Ice Fury are boring mechanics. Use Earth Shock as point spender is ok, but you have to keep track of Icefury proc, which just feels like bloat.

This can be simple by itself, but in a hectic M+ situation it can be really tricky to keep tracs on stupid procs meanwhile the whole floor is exploding.

Also Ret Paladin, while being super simple, also feels bloated.

You have a combo point builder, Judgment.
You have Final Verdict, spender.
Then you have lots of things in between as Divine Toll, Blade of Justice, Divine Storm, which is a second spender, Wake of Ashes, and Final Reckoning. I might have forgotten more.

To use it optimal you need to use all these abilities in correct order.

I see no reason why theres so many buttons that basically does the same with a little tweaks.

I loved the classic Paladin but hated it when they changed it to combo point builder, but I really enjoyed it with OBR and are slowly gearing it up atm.

Balance Druid also feels somewhat bloated.

Throw 2 Starfire to make your wrath better. Use 2 Wraths or so to make your Starfire better.
You got a moonfire dot, and a sunfire aoe dot.
You got a single target energy spender, and a aoe target energy spender.

It feels a bit unnesesary to have two buttons that does the same thing, depending of if its single target or aoe.

Meanwhile, the game doesnt tell you about the procs about these casts, I learned that using Hekili.

Am I a bad player? Probably, but I still have fun. I still reached 3k on druid being resto/balance with hekili.

But I would never have played Paladin without either Hekili or OBR. It is just not fun.
But why do I want to play it then? I love being a Holy Warrior, I love the aesthetic and lore about it.

My main was combat rogue since classic until they ruined it by removing combat and add the hideos Outlaw spec. After this I just went straight to DH, then BM, then Guardian, then resto/balance.

I might try Outlaw again, hopefully it will get more fun now that I can just hit a button and remove all the garbageabilities they implemented for that spec.

345

I’m in the anti-OBR crowd, wrong solution to a problem, which is bloat & complexity of the class design, and just papers over the cracks rather than making any effort to solve the problem. The game will just be a mindless experience of running out of circles whilst pressing your one button - not engaging at all.

The OBR should be deleted, not nerfed, and Blizzard should put time into rationalising class design instead. What a waste of sub money.

Is this moving us to a more console-friendly version of WoW with the game pass I wonder.

346

It just proves that it’s too strong, no need to be upset, it’s just absurd

347

It didn’t. That player literally had 200-400 more rating than the others. He would have topped the charts anyways. The only question which cannot be answered remains; what would that player’s output have been without it? That is the ONLY thing that matters.

348

if anything its proving how ridiculous th button bloat in wow is.

the game is just to hard for average gamer atm .

and has been like this since cata

349

To be honest, for most classes, the gameplay is pretty simple.

Maybe that was the case with DF, and even then. (and rdrood actualy)
But I really don’t want to play WoW with gameplay as poor as BFA/vanilla.

The reality is that players are just bad and/or they don’t know it or don’t realize it. This is called denial.

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350

And that’s ok. Ion himself stated that this feature is for accessibility purposes and enjoying the fantasy world.

If you want to use it for leveling, farming legacy raids, world quests or LFR, go for it. However, in its current state, it can be used to finish M+17s and kill mythic bosses.

I view OBR as no different than kick-botting or CC-botting in PvP. It doesn’t really matter in casual content. However, rated content should strive to provide a fair environment.

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351

Reading up on it, people say it’s anywhere from 60 to 80% of the damage of an optimal or even semi optimal rotation done manually, if so, then it’s good, but once a feature like this is as good as learning and improving as a player for true endgame content, like gladiators or mythic raiders using a one button rotation, then it feels the like the integrity of the game is being eroded a bit. Not only does it mean that class design goes out the window entirely, classes like arcane or outlaw can just be hand waved away with the excuse that “if it’s too complicated just use the one button rotation”, which is just terrible game design and will force more and more players into using it as class design deteriorates

And what is the end goal of a system or philosophy like that? Is every class supposed to be a one button class with a 3 minute offensive CD? Why even have classes at all at that point if there is no reason to understand or utilize abilities differently, just have everyone be a generic class, nothing matters and everyone is the same.

Really hope it doesn’t come to that.

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352

I did. And now it’s all pointless.

Well, other than the what-if cases it was all pointless in the first place, but at least I got something out of it, stupid as it was.

But now it’s all completely wasted.

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353

Of course it will come to that. There is no other way for this to end. It’ll keep getting more and more complicated and “cool” and bloated and confusing, and more and more will turn to the one button rotation because the increasing skill requirements eventually causes the 1-button rotation to be better.

They can continue to let it deteorate by continuing along this path until the game essentially breaks down, or alternatively they can just stop this and find a different path forward: The one I have suggested for the last 3 years:

Blizzard can try to nerf the 1-button rotation, but now the cat is out of the bag. Any attempt to put the cat back into the bag is going to be impossible and will be met with fierce resistance from “accessibility advocates” (aka easymode advocates - there’s almost never anything about accessibility in their motivations, only their words. They want the game’s class design to be easier. GOOD. ADMIT IT!)

They took the class design abstractions and weirdnesses too far and made it too confusing to play, and then people couldn’t figure it out, and they wanted to keep it, so they decided to make a system which plays it for you, which makes it all pointless.

Your class should be a toolbox full of a whole bunch of “what if enemy does X, then I have Y available” abilities. 12 of them or so, and then 4-6 CD’s of various kinds on top of that, and then some various utilities like interrupts an dispels and CC’s and all those sorts of things.

And all these random procs, especially those t hat randomly cast additional spells, HAVE TO GO. ALL. OF. THEM.

Some classes have 6-12 more. Druids would be on the high end due to shapeshifting, warlocks too, and rogues would be a bit on the lower end.

If an enemy does nothing to you, 2 to 3 buttons is all you need to take him out. The hard part starts when you have to deal with his mechanics while dealing damage, or when the situation about what abilities that deal the most damage change for some other reason.

WoW used to be like this. I’ve been here the entire time looking at the game’s class design break down into a bloody joke. This is the endgame. Either they go all the way back to where they came from and start again, or the game breaks further and further. It’s pretty much broken already.

3 Likes
354

Yeah, it just feels so pointless, MMOs are built on the foundation of having classes that all have different strengths and weaknesses, different abilities and tools. If everything just devolves into 1 button you spam for damage, 1 3 minute offensive CD, and that’s that, what’s the point of playing the game?

It feels like the advocates for this system would be okay with aimbot as an “accessibility” feature in CSGO because everyone doesn’t have the same reaction speed. Just a joke at this point.

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355

This is also on us, the players. We are way too focused on the performance of our spec in content we don’t do to actually see that it all doesn’t matter as much and we should just play what we like.

As long as we have that bizarre focus on performance, there’s only one way out of this and it’s indeed a generic solution to all specs. Not my cup of tea.

356

Yes! And no! This applies to EVERY GAME. It even applies to Tic-Tac-Toe, though it does it poorly which is why it’s broken…

The whole point is that they’re interactive experiences where one person does one thing and then you must respond with something else in an interactive sort of way.

Pressing one button to deal your damage and then only having movement and CC on the side is the equivalent of every game of StarCraft 2 using the same build and autocasting all their abilities, or Skyrim with only a single skill and all spells being cast automatically, or Counter-Strike that auto-buys and auto-switches weapons based on whether enemies crouch or nor and how many are behind the nearby wall, or having only one good set of heroes in League of Legends.

IT’S. BROKEN.
It’s completely broken.
They have to start again.
This is madness!
This is NOT SPARTA.
Just madness. Sorry guys.

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357

This is what i don’t get either, besides it eroding the skill expression and the rewarding learning curve of a game, people who advocate for dumbing the game down to the lowest common denominator, do they even like playing the game? Like one of the fun things about wow is picking up a class, and having to stretch your mental muscles learning how to play it.

Would CS be fun to play with an aimbot 24/7? Not really, would League or Dota be fun if as you said, there was only one set of champions you played every single game, every matchup was known from the start? What about an RPG where you could only go one build, like Skyrim or Cyberpunk?

Do the people who want these things even like video games at all? To my ears it just sounds like they don’t even want to play the game, so why cater to them?

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358

I" love" the OBR, and have convertes my 3 played classes to it. Ret pala, Survival hunter and Fury warrior.

First it lets me look at more than just my action bar seeing when things are of cd. I do not find it more boring than pressing separate buttons for a class I know well. The different spell effects and moves my character does help with the feeling of something different happening with each press.

I like that my other fingers now are all resting on kicks and other imortant spells all the time for fast reaction to events.

What I do not like is the gcd added. It feels really bad playing with less than 30 haste. Please remove it.

I also do not like that there is no option on what to include in OBR. For ret pala you have Wake of Ashes and it will go off if you are near an enemy or not. I would have liked to have WoA on a separate button.

359

And ? What’s is wrong about this ?

If anything it finaly shows how ridiculous the delta of performance between good and bad players was for years.

Why shoudlnt people be able to complete +17 keys if they want ?

This is something which i have been saying for years - one of biggest problems of low m+ keys is how badly most people underperform - and this is fixing that issue .

360

It is because if this thing will be decent enough to be used in a high end raiding environment or M+, then your players will expect you to use it without giving you an option to actually learn your rotation.

If your learning curve is longer than the average, what will you say if your raid lead will tell you “swap over to one button rotation because you are pulling raid performance down” ? Optimal is the name of the game, and OBR is more consistent in providing numbers, then you will either use it, or be benched.

It is not a matter of “just use your 30 button rotation”, more of the social pressure this will put on players. You can play the game perfectly fine without addons, and many do with great success, but most do use them because it is an expectation in high end content. You can do it just fine without it, but your team mates will want you to use it just so they minimize the chances of errors happening.

Even if they tune it down so you only get 40 to 60 percent maximum out of the theoretical maximum as a player you should still be fine. That is still enough to do casual content at a good pace, and some lower brackets of organised content. Once you reach 10 keys and over, and later heroic bosses this thing should start running out of steam, as those are the breakpoints where the game should encourage you to delve deeper into your class/spec mechanics.

It is merely too good right now, and not tuning it proper will end up it being an expectation in organised raiding and low to mid-high levels of m+ keys. Finding a group that will allow you to not use it will be about as hard to find as it was to find raiding guilds who used personal loot before Master loot was removed.

There need to be something in game to encourage you to try and learn the ins and outs of your class. Having OBR pushing out 70 to 90% of your theoretical maximum DPS will encourage you to do the opposite, which is very bad.

Not to mention that if it is not fixed then those classes who cannot pull those numbers with the use of OBR will be excluded in favor for those classes that can reach those numbers. Picking a Windwalker who currently does not do good numbers with OBR is a double gamble in higher keys, as if they use OBR they will underperform, and if they do not use it they may still underperform (either due to personal faults, or they were using OBR before and thus they did not learn a single lick at how their spec works). You are going to favor taking classes who get more percentage out as with OBR there is much less of a chance that they will underperform.

Simply put, if OBR stays like this you will not have an option to learn your class. The community overall will enforce it within the content they do (mid to high end).

It should be pushed down to 40-50%, so it can actually function as an assistant to those new to a spec or those who do not care to learn it (which is perfectly fine notion to go with) but the performance will be low enough that moving up the ladder will naturally push them towards the path of learning and improving.

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