I lead a pug for Onyxia the other day and all hell was loose when I let everybody roll for her head.
I tried asking around on reddit and couldn’t get a straight answer, so im gonna try here:
Will ranged or casters end up replacing their item reward for a dungeon item or will they keep it till they get better loot from Molten core/future raids?
(I havn’t played caster in Vanilla and don’t know how %crit contra spell dmg works.)
I think it’s essential for how loot rules should be cause even thoug the reward might be BiS for rogues and tanks it’s not like BiS rings are gonna drop for every caster that enters an mc raid.
And yes loot rules should be set beforehand, which i forgot in this particular run. But I still wanna know what type of loot rules to set in the future. Cause if casters will replace their ring with dungeon loot, I think it could make sense to prioritize those who will keep it for 1 or 2 phases of the game. Otherwise I think it should be free-for-all who wants it.
Hope someone can give a precise (and un-biased) answer.
I just so happen to have won the Onyxia head in a raid a few days ago, and I got my caster ring.
I must say that I replaced a ring with similar 1% spell crit, namely this one https://classic.wowhead.com/item=18103/band-of-rumination
so in effect the epic ring replaced “5 mana per 5 sec” with all the stats and 10 fire resist.
It was a good upgrade for me.
But would I have still had use for the head if I had the actual good pre-BiS or 2nd pre-BiS ring available for Phase 1?
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=13001/maidens-circle
+7 int & +6 spi & +18 spell dmg/healing.
I can say with enough confidence that on my server that ring has never been on the AH in the last month, with me checking almost daily for it.
But if it would be listed… would it be less than 200g? I don’t know.
So winning the Ony head was good for me either way, because in reality I didn’t have a better ring, and I’m grateful for being included in the roll (it was a /roll 1-29 done by the RL that awarded me it as my char was in the rolled position) and if I would’ve had the OPTION to get the better ring, getting the Ony head saved me ~200g, possibly more.
So in short: no, I don’t think you did the wrong thing. Caster rings are a pain to get, especially in Phase 1, since the pre-BiS is a BoE blue that drops from raids with a 1% drop chance. And the actual BiS isn’t easier to obtain either.
It is also my opinion that it doesn’t matter that they replace an epic with another, or a blue with an epic, because at the end of the day caster rings are incredibly limited, even if the BiS is technically from MC, that one has a 6% drop chance (granted it can drop from 4 bosses per each MC), so it’s not much better to have forbidden casters from rolling on the Ony head just because they’re supposed to wait on their luck someplace else.
Onyxia head prio is tanks > melee > hunters > melee alts > casters
The neck is absolutely insane and is bis for threat the entire game for tanks, and is incredibly strong for melee and hunters as well. The ring is ok for pvp right now in this early stage for casters, but is not better than what can be gotten from dungeons.
The trinket is a very good way of telling that the person who chose it is absolute garbage at the game and have no idea what they’re doing.
I also didn’t include in my post the part where I address the “disclosing loot rules” beforehand, my apologies.
My RL was straightforward with that, he said “The bag and the head will be /rolled by me and the position that gets rolled gets it” and absolutely no one had a problem with that with 30 ppl.
But back to the Blue ring… if these 2 rings were available to me with the same level of convenience, I think I would’ve picked the blue BoE.
But the game doesn’t function like that… and despite what Narcind said about leaving us casters behind melee alts, I strongly disagree.
If it’s a Pug? No one owes anything to anyone. You could exclude casters from the roll, but that’d be gratuitous since it’s not your guild mates melees that you’re doing a favor for, are they
So there was no way for me to get a better upgrade until my luck would eventually turn in MC. Twice. Because we can equip 2 of those MC rings. So I see it as extremely scummy to just bar someone from getting epic-quality upgrades in 1 out of the 2 raids, and would potentially not join said pug if I had other options (or a guild to raid with).
You can maybe check your server’s AH for the blue Maiden’s Circle ring I linked, and see if it’s available and if so at what prices, and based on that make further decisions… but this seems like going above and beyond for a PuG, props to you if you choose to do that.
So to answer the question of why I think Casters should be included fairly in the head roll: the blue ring doesn’t exist on my server, it’s not on the Alliance AH, and if it were, it would probably be very expensive.
So based on this a raid guild might finance their casters with some gold to get their rings, or just run them through UBRS until they get the rumination band ring which is the poor man’s version of the Ony head ring. But this is all context dependant.
So coming back to your original premise and your context: no, you didn’t do the wrong thing. But… maybe you should’ve told everyone from the start that you’re gonna roll out the head fairly to everyone and if they had a problem with that they could bounce.
Players for an ony pug are a dime a dozen, considering that even a pug can kill her off with 20-30 people, not even a full raid of 40.
Because In classic wow, your name on your server will become known fairly fast as a douchebag if you don’t. Remember no x-realms and LFG, if you get a bad name in classic… that’s it your known and people will actively flame you every time your name appears in /LFG and /trade
No, that happens if you ninja or something of that caliber, and that is something else. There is no benefit for you as a caster passing on Onyxia’s head in a pug so some random melee can have it.
Ony Head should always go to Tanks/Melee/Hunters before anyone else gets the chance to roll, and it should go to Paladins/Druids/Shamans before it goes to Priests/Mages/Warlocks.
The Neckpiece is one of the best itemized items in the game, and one of the only two neck pieces with both crit and hit on it. Meanwhile the caster ring is complete garbage, and there are better blue items they can get.
In the future I advice you do not run a pug if you have no idea about how to distribute loot in a good way. Giving the head to casters this early in the game borders on ninjalooting to be honest.
Taking the ony head over melee is as close to “of that caliber” as it gets. As a mage I would expect to be refused if I tried to join future raid pugs if I stated I wanted the head. I certainly would be very cautious about bringing any such mages to a pug I was in.
Thank you for the answers i will definetly take it into consideration!
Today a caster got it and gave it to a melee friend and loot rules was stated in advance.
I just don’t understand why the neck is so good if it gets replaced in phase 2, which is by the time most casters will probably get rid of the ring unless they are lucky enough to get two 6% drop rate rings in molten core.
For me it’s sort of a principle that loot should never be reserved in a pug, but maybe i’ll make an exception in this case.
At least i would like to have some sort of evidential explanation on which blue rings exactly are better than the onyxia head ring. Cause if casters will replace it with a blue dungeon ring that would probably tip my descision in favour of melee/hunter/tank.
And remember, people can just join a guild run instead which there are plenty of in the /lookingforgroup channel. But ofc they probably have the head reserved for their own tank/off tank/off off tank
It’s not really reserving though is it, when you give loot to people that actually benefit.
It’s just straight up not good for casters, while melee may still use the neck in Naxxramas. Loot in raids has to be sensible even though you dont reserve stuff.
Some other examples would be giving Drake Fang Talisman to a hunter. Quick Strike Ring to a Rogue, or Choker of the Firelord to a healer.
Some pieces are just so damn good for some classes while at the same time being marginal upgrade to others that it makes no sense to let everyone get an equal shot at them.
I don’t think fury warriors ever replace it, nor do prot warriors as far as threat pieces go?
Like I said earlier, the ring is good for pvp right now as there aren’t a whole lot of options, but for pve, it’s just not good. For a frost mage, in the gear that is currently available, 1% crit equals roughly 8-9 spell power, meaning it’s worse than the rings from the saving princess quest and boe world drops, and only a sidegrade to a variety of dungeon drops, so giving it to a caster really doesn’t make any sense.
In pug, people doesn’t know each others and they are likely not playing in the same raids every week. So, there’s no “preference” about loot better for someone else. The only thing that determinate which won the item is the roll. If a Paladin want to roll on Thunderfury bindings, or a Mage for a caster ring via Onyxia Head, they can, unless you determine rules before the raid (example : binding legendary reserved for warrior).
No, thats just stupid. Just because it’s a pug does not mean you need to make dumb loot rules that give people sidegrades when another class would get a massive upgrade out of the item.
Well sure you can, just dont expect people to ever join your pugs again when your loot rules make absolutely no sense.
It’s not a problem, don’t join the group if you don’t agree the rules (it seem you like this sentence like i saw in some other thread). We will replace you with anothers guy that want to join the Molten Core and Onyxia, and there’s plenty.
Oh I absolutely agree with that. Just in this case its implicity implied the head dont go to casters because its such an obvious case of common sense that the head is tank/melee/hunter priority.
Letting casters roll when there are equal or better items available in 5man dungeons while the melee getting it may not ever replace it is riddiculous.
I agree with you, i will never roll on Onyxia Head because I have 2x Frost band so no point to get a downgrade.
But i know some guys who will, because they have crappy ring, and this is an upgrade. Sure, it’s better to get it for a Warrior, but in pug you can’t expect people to pass some loot because … it’s pug. But well, everytime i joined an Onyxia, the rules what defined before : Caster can’t roll on Head. So this problem never happen, but if it happen, just define clear rules before the raid, it’s probably better than create a drama when the Head is roll.
Head is melee dps and tanks prio. And before you ask the same question about nef’s head a year after, it also goes for tanks and melees. Ony’s neck and nef’s ring are 2 bis tank and melee dps items in the whole game.
