Opening the can of worms - "Lightforged Undead"

Lore Story
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Could they work? What do you think? I have recently been thinking about them as a concept and I came to the conclussion that they wouldn’t be so terrible.

If you haven’t heard about what they are, in Before the Storm Calia is killed by Sylvanas and later resurrected by the naaru (S’ara) and comes back as a “light-fueled undead”. Currently she is the only one in this state, with no one knowing what Blizzard’s plan with this all is.

If Blizz decides to continue this plot, I think it would be a nice way of returning “stolen” Alliance heroes back to us. I’ll talk about characters who would be suitable for this in a while. But first I would like to set some boundaries.

The only characters getting “lightforged” would be the ones already resurrected by the Lich King/Sylvanas. That means no digging through tombs to create new undead, so nothing insane as lightforged Liam Greymane or Daelin Proudmoore would happen.

So who would be suitable? I’ll make a short list

  1. Alonsus Faol - he actually, together with Anduin, helped to ressurect Calia. If the process can be replicated, I expect he will be the first one to undergo it.

  2. Archmage Ataeric - last seen resurrected in Silverpine, helping the forsaken attack Gilneas 5 minutes after they killed him. Blizzard later claimed that when new undead rises, they enter a state of “rampage”, in which they are easy to manipulate, which forsaken use against their enemies. When his rampage ended, no one knows where he ended up. I’d say that the Hero of Ambermill would be one of the best adepts for this.

  3. Thoras Trollbane - he’s a death knight I know, but as far as we know, they have free will too. With the Legion’s threat finished, why shouldn’t he join up with the Alliance again?

  4. Derek Proudmoore - I think everyone has heard about him by now. He’s already back amongst the living and what will his ultimate fate be? Just killing him would be cruel, considering there’s a high chance every undead goes to hell just for being risen. I’d say him being redeemed and serving Alliance once more, while Sylvanas’s plans crumble once again, would be much better fate.

Some Scarlet and former Southshore characters would be a nice addition too, but this thread would be far too long if I listed them all. I’ll leave it at that.

As an allied race

Personally, I would enjoy another human-themed allied race. So how would they look and what would be their starting location? I’ll try to summarize my ideas here.

Name of their race - definitelly not Lightforged Undead, that sounds cheesy as hell. I’d say Redeemed has nice ring to it, also tells you what they are all about.

How would they look - a mix of undead and human models. They use human skeleton, but you can see both their light and undead part - yellow glowing eyes and bones coming from their sickly pale skin.

Starting location - newly updated Uther’s Tomb. Uther’s spirit is there as well - he’s the one that gives you the quest to talk to Anduin.

Heritage Armor - some hd plate/mail armor with rust and big Lordaeron “L” on it. Nothing overblown.

Available Classes - Mage, Priest, Monk, Rogue, Hunter, Paladin, Warrior (7), no warlock because Redeemed, and I think the lack of the remaining classes is pretty obvious.

Mount - A horse, duh. They are the best anyway. Like their owner, with a model that’s a mix of both normal and a skeletal horse. And some cool Lordaeron themed armor.

Well, that’s all from me. Apologies for a little longer thread. So, once again, what are your thoughts? Don’t be shy!

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I think this is rather a good idea.

I am far from jumping on the I-don’t-like-the-idea-so-I-will-attack-it train.

This is a fantasy universe and, if implemented properly, anything can work.

Your ideas seem rather plausible. I approve. Also, you made it sound rather interesting.

If we can have talking bulls, such as myself, why not Light-empowered undead creatures?

No need to. A good read, well supported with arguments.

Have a like, Ebon Knight.

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I think it is safe to say that I am not a big fan of this. But I guess it has potential to be alright. It just depends on what they do with it.

It also depends on how Lightforged Undead works, does the person have to be recently deceased? Could I just go around reviving fallen Alliance (and perhaps Horde) heroes? If Derek’s body can be intact after this long then lets bring back Lothar etc…

This would also mean that the Neitherlight Temple and Priest Orderhall go to the Alliance, especially if they are going to become an Allied race. I know that Anduin tried to get them (or actually did I can’t remember) to help them with the evacuation of Teldrassil. But then again I think this would annoy me more that them Priests would choose a side and not the CC who have just kept completely to themselves.

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The tiny minority that is against this idea is overreacting. Lightforged Undead are far from being the worst race ever. Death is not and never was the opposite of the Light. If we can have Fel-infused Void creatures (see that boss in Hellfire Citadel) or Lightforged Mages (so, basically, individuals infused with Light and Arcane), why can’t we have a race infused with Light and Death?

These people are stuck in the old lore when Light and Death were enemies. After Chronicles Volume 1 and the rework of the cosmos, that is no longer the case. Light and Void cannot be together, not Light and Death.

This is a clever way to ensure that Lordaeron sees some drama even with the Forsaken gone and at the same time give the Alliance a claim over Lordaeron so that they don’t look like the bad guys (granted, you would really have to be foolish to think that the Alliance are the bad guys in this expansion).

The only characters getting “lightforged” would be the ones already resurrected by the Lich King/Sylvanas. That means no digging through tombs to create new undead, so nothing insane as lightforged Liam Greymane or Daelin Proudmoore would happen.

This is where you are wrong. Garithos should come back. He was a relentless veteran who managed to hold his position at Dalaran for a long time after Capital City was destroyed and the Alliance of Lordaeron annihilated. Calia needs a geneeral to lead her armies, who better than Garithos?

Plus imagine the look on Sylvanas’ ugly face when she sees Garithos in charge of Lordaeron… or what’s left of it at the very least.

Starting location - newly updated Uther’s Tomb. Uther’s spirit is there as well - he’s the one that gives you the quest to talk to Anduin.

Possibly Lordaeron Keep. Many speculate this because the name on the world map of the city was changed from Undercity to Lordaeron Keep in this expansion, so Blizzard might be doing something with Lordaeron Keep in the future. If Jaina alone was able to freeze the Blight for a long time, I wouldn’t be surprised if the writers came up with a way to remove the Blight and restore the city.

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This is true. I’ll add - Dark Iron Dwarves are pretty much Fireforged, aren’t they?

Possibilities are endless!

I support this. The Alliance needs him and they need him badly. Especially in the times of battling against Sylvanas.

I’d love it.

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Dark Iron is not Fireforged or something. And also fire is not one of the main 6 anyway it is just a part of Arcane.

As of now we saw Void fused with everything thanks to lore killer Void Elf race. We see lightforged demons and undead. I dont think light and void can mix tho. Probably death cant mix with life and nature cant mix with Arcane? Actually so far I dont think Blizz cares about Order and Disorder as much as they care about Death, Void and Light. The other 3 bigs are in a huge backseat rn. Even Life while we are talking a lot about death

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So…how would that work for the allied race? Every lightforged undead was a Forsaken lorewise?

And…what would be the lore reason against raising others with the light? Normal undeath is quite unpleaseant, weakening your positive emotions and twisting your character, while your body is decomposing around you and needs constant upkeep to prevent it falling apart. We also have the suspicion that deeds done while undead may actually help to damn you to a horrible afterlife… really not something you would wish upon anyone.
I don’t think light-based undeath would have the same drawbacks, would it? So why wouldn’t you ressurect old heroes that came before? Why not raise Uther and Tirion, and all the others, if they are needed to fight… whatever is the enemy of the year?

What would be the in-universe reason not just to make death even more meaningless than it is already is, by creating a world, where both Factions have an undead faction that just raises anyone who falls?

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They are infused with Ragnaros’s power and he was the Lord of Fire in his time.

Fire is the part of Arcane?.. what?

The universe is made out of Light, Void, Arcane, Fel, Life and Death but Elements (fire, water, air, earth) are the foundations of the creation. They are somehow… outside of the cycle.

They are not “part of the Arcane”.

Your, rather hurtful, subjective opinion.

Discipline Priests since forever?

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Pretty much, that’s why they are called redeemed. And after void elves and alternate timeline mag’har, “there’s too few of them” is not an argument.

Not wanting to disturb their peace? Actual Alliance values everyone always speaks of showing themselves?

I need to go to work, I’ll be back in the morning, take care everyone.

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Have fun/take care/don’t give up.

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It’s not like they chose to die, is it? If you asked them - and you yourself proposed having Uther’s ghost being an active part of the faction, so why wouldn’t you? - I’m quite sure almost every hero character would choose to rise from the grave with their religions blessing, to vanquisch the evil that threatens the world they already fought and died for.

Why wouldn’t they choose this form of undeath? It only postpones their unity within the light, or whatever that is, it doesn’t prevent it - or at least I don’t see any reason why it would. I’m not saying you should do something they wouldn’t want. I’m not asking to do something to them that the Light they revered would condemn. I’m talking about offering them the choice to fight again to save the world, in their undead body, with the blessing of the Light.

I think this would make death in the world meaningless, but if lightforging undead isn’t a practical problem, I don’t see why they would refrain from it.

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Its an oxymoron which shouldn’t exist. D:

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I’m not fan of this idea and I don’t trust that Blizzard would handle it well. It’s better to just keep Calia as an odd exception (although I would much more prefer for her to be perma dead) and not push it any further.

It’s the original races that need attention.

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The problem with this is that it simply raises more question about how magic in Azeroth work; the world’s magic system and cosmology is poorly defined.

For instance, why make “Light undead” when the Light’s form of resurrection has usually just brought people back to life?

Does this work inversely? Does this mean that evil magic, such as the shadow & necromancy, can resurrect; not just reanimate, but actually bring people back to life?

What actually animates an ‘Undead’? Traditionally it’s been dark magic ala Necromancy, which explains why they were vulnerable to light magic which was their antithesis.

Or does this mean that ANY type/source of magic can animate Undead?

And if every type of magic can animate undead, then what is really the difference between the different magic types in the first place? Don’t you then run into the problem of having different colored icream which all just tastes the same?

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I agree with you, but the cosmic problems already arose with Calia, having a few more wouldn’t change the concept.

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I’m all for it, I think it’s an interesting area I wouldn’t mind seeing expanded upon.

Also as much as I would actually LIKE to see Liam Greymane return, Genn sorta needs that tragedy to give him that little extra edge.

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I think it’s a rather bad idea, that cheapens and drags into the mud the initial and popular theme they used for both Forsaken and Undeath.

And just kicks down a hill all the lore involving both characters and basic cosmology lore of the games universe.

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About the starting zone, i would like to see updated Stratholme with half of it in control of Silverhand/Argent Crusade ( i dont know if they are still Silverhand or the order break up after Legion) and the other half in control of Lightforged Undead like right now the Risen and Scourge parts of the dungeon. The reason for it being that this is where Arthas started falling to darkness and for Calia it would be a good start trying to reclaim the Lordaeron throne. Also it allows for Forsaken players to keep Tirisfal Glades and whats left of Undercity, maybe even reconstrated Brill, Deathknell and so on.

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And I’m back from work, ready to make more posts.

Actually, Wimbert, disregard my previous post. I think that, in order to make the Redeemed really work (or make them work as much as they can) we need to set up more rules. If we don’t they would really just become a not-forsaken and a mockery of lore.

So, how about this, they are unable to make more undead. In the recruitment quests, Alonsus Faol (or some other character, though I think he would fit the best) explains it -

“The Light cannot and will not disturb the peace of the dead. All we can do is make the plight of the damned a little easier. Calia… what happened to her was a miracle. A miracle we probably won’t see ever again. Why the Light chose this fate for her, I do not know.”

or something along these lines, I’m not the best writer. Explains why Uther stays as a ghost and doesn’t hop around in his newly forged form.

I think they would work mainly because forsaken have grown too big in the last few years. If they really have free will why should any newly risen follow Sylvanas? So who would become Redeemed? A fallen scarlet zealot, an old veteran of the 2nd war who was resurrected decades after being killed by an orc, a victim of the blight that destroyed Southshore or one of the non-worgen killed by the forsaken in Gilneas.

Basically anyone who doesn’t see Sylvie as a liberator like she’s presented, but as a Lich Queen. It would be symbolic - just as the Lich King’s grasp over the undead weakened and crumbled so too her turn has come. She tried to play god and forgot that she’s just an elf.

Hey, I’m just trying to work with what we got!

They would basically be humans and add things to human lore. Everyone still thinks “Lordaeron” when they hear WoW human anyway. Hell, we still use the L as a logo.

Fixed by adding a rule - no new undead. Just redeeming already risen ones.

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Matter of perspective.
To me they already started the War in Legion when they well knowingly attacked the Warchief of the Horde.

Escalated it when they Brought Calia menethil before Sylvanas at a “ceasefire”

As for Light undead.
Eh’ sure makes a good way for ‘evil’ light creatures and a more twsited Nature to the light as a hold.
Which I am all for