Esfand was playing in a nonhardcore guild and he was still dead last
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The only class youâre competing with is a druid for worst dps, Paladins get a raid spot because of their utility/buffs. Ret dps is so far behind Warrior or Rogue dps that itâs scary, it isnât like in retail where a spec can be bad and uncompetitive, itâs literally like having a spec doing a role it wasnât intended for.
I mean effectively youâre just a healer trying to dps, put the blame on Blizzard for designing Paladins that way and not the players for running with it. Retribution dps doesnât become a real thing until the 2nd half of TBC⌠Considering TBC Classic (if it comes) will probably be on 2.4.3 you will be ok, Rets are really strong dps in 2.4.3 (well, at least Horde, not sure about Alliance).
Its important to remember that anytime a class is considered ââbadââ, itâs literally just how well they perform long term on a patchwerk style fight with a dot-limit. Thats it.
Any class works well in dungeons, pvp, and the world since these ultra specific conditions dont apply.
But since private server elitists only care about what class can do the most dps on a raid fight thats the ââmetricââ people go by in classic wich is stupid imo
Paladins are great fun, and perform well, just not on a raid boss, same with Hunters, or Druids, or Spriests, they all perform more than well on anything that isnât patchwerk
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Call it whatever you want, your opinion is irrelevant to me.
My guild consists of players who I played with during the original Classic, and itâs their opinion that counts.
They didnât consider me a handicap then while clearing up to Sapphiron and me getting Grand Marshal - all as Retribution spec - and donât consider me a handicap now, except that I just havenât had time to finish leveling yet. 
no when looking at logs always look at whole runs + trash to judge if a class is worth taking or not. On this metric, ret is not.
you are playing a human paladin, you are handicapped
iâve never heard of people caring about dps logs on trash, iâve only ever seen spreadsheets of top dps classes and performance logs on bossfights but iâll take your word for it
thats because trash is not relevent in retail. In classic trash is over 50% of the time to clear so ofc it has to be taken into consideration
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The thing is Paladins are a strong class, they just arenât a strong dps. Grand Marshall was more about dedication than anything, having good people around you to play with and rely on. The game isnât just about dps, buffs and utility make a huge difference, but if youâre talking about the role of damage dealer then a Paladin is a poor choice, because other classes can output orders of magnitude more damage.
well of course, but even back in wrath when i started taking the game seriously i donât recall people really caring about trash but classic is different i suppose
on classic so far in mc iâve wiped twice to trash and not once to bosses. Asspulls but still trash
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Your position on this is really only relevant to top tier guilds pushing hard. It doesnât factor in all the rogues/mages/warriors etc that are being lazy or need to git gud. Even in that small sample we have on Word of Logs there are some there doing less DPS than the ret.
which ret has logs on that website?
Human for +5 mace/sword skill and -10% rep grind.
Seems like a good deal to me. 
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The point is that I didnât join a guild of big dick DPSers, I joined a guild that wants to experience how Classic actually was.
If the boss dies and you have a good time it doesnt matter if you do 785.42 DPS or 787.81 DPS. The end result is the same.
Thatâs the great thing about such a huge community as WoW, there are groups for everyone to fit in.
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With ret it is 700dps of normal dps vs 150dps of ret dps.
End result is not the same, a lot time goes to kill.
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Hottage, your name looks familiar, did you get your GM on vashj by chance?
Closer to 700DPS normal vs 620DPS from a Ret, however a warrior canât provide an extra set of Blessings, Cleanse spam, Judgement of Wisom/Light, Blessing of Protection, Lay on Hands or Divine Intervention. 
Executus
There does not exist over 600dps paladin records anywhere.
Highest I found was 420dps with VERY VERY good gear and buffs.
Compared to 1600dps of warrior with same gear level.
700 vs 150 is reality, sad but true.
I implore you to prove me wrong with logs.
And that video with private server GM using modified items and spells does not really count⌠Seen also GM do same things on other classes and one shotting bosses.
Quite sad people think that is real spelladin and fail to notice how modified server he tests is. (for example using immortal tank is suuuure way to say nothing is modifiedâŚ)
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Ppl watch streamers liek Esfand and they think they can RET everything.
Thing is he is streamer and so called number 1 ret paladin and if ppl watch this, they want be also retardins.
I have not seen any good retardin dps in ages and we wont.
Arguments of type RET brings utility. yeah exactly same stuff as holy paladin.
In the End RET paladin have to put 300% more effort to be as bellow average warrior.
Plus there is no any paladin gear for DPS. Since you would need crit, hit chance and spell dmg. All sets are made for heal, not dps. Maybe 2,5 Tier Avenger set, but you have to wait till AQ40 and then you still be 50%dmg of mediocore Warrior or rogue.
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