It hasn’t been proven.
So lets see you prove it.
Oh thought it was a serious debate.
I got trolled, nicely done.
Fooled me good.
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Ret damage has been proven many times and it’s never close to real DPS. Maybe if you vastly outgear your DPS buddies though.
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To do good dps have to go full selfish as warrs and will do around same dps?
P.S. who cares about the best dps if 40man raids get cleared with just 25 players.
Who cares then what and how much do dmg.
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So show me an actual good ret player that isn’t using AP ret in pve get massively destroyed dps-wise.
- There are barely any rets due to this stigma so you’re unlikely to find any thing you can even reference
- Ret doesn’t need to be on par with something like rogue/mage/warrior. They just need to do well in general. Nobody would ever argue that they beat the top dps classes, because they don’t. The issue is that people seem to think ret dps is BAD. It’s not bad, it’s great. Of course rogue/warr/mage dps is downright amazing, but that doesn’t make ret dps bad.
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Doing the highest dps always means you have to be selfish.
Most pure dps are selfish in order to obtain the highest personal dps.
And I don’t care who has the best dps, but other people seem to think it’s something like 90% of dps done by rogue/mage/warr, and ret palas running around with single-digit dps doing absolutely nothing.
In reality it’s more like rogue/mage/warr indicating a damage potential of 100%, with ret lying around 80-85% on average (spelladin who knows how to play), with a ceiling of maybe 90-95% depending on gear discrepancies.
A terrible rogue/mage/warr might still end up with about 70-80% damage potential, while a terrible ret pala easily drops below 50% damage potential.
It’s harder to play efficiently and optimally, but it’s not bad. There are few rets, and most of them suck. Still doesn’t make it a bad spec.
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The fact that to actually be one of the rets that can do better than most rets means that is someone that puts in 100% effort. Is dedicated, Is focused. And you rather take chad rogue or chad hunter to be carried by your best bois. Seriously thought this toxic crap disappeared in 2007. Glad I’m maining warrior this time rather than put up with that crap again.
So you just going to ignore the logs that prove ret to be bad ?
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They don’t exist my friend. Hop on Classic dot warcraftlogs and have a look. There’s what, 4 rets? 3 in AP ret (aka bad) setup and 1 person with a funny mix.
None of them using correct spelladin gear.
So esfand is not a ret pala? As of now on warcraft logs 0 recorder rets on ragnaros vs 96 recorded hpal. Ret dream is dead if you play pala, you gonna heal in raids
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Esfand doesn’t show up on the logs as far as I can see.
Beyond that, it doesn’t really matter whether there is 1 or 200 holy pallies and 0 rets on the logs. It’s all stigma.
You know, you aren’t Method. Maybe if you are one of the top end guilds on your server does this have to even be an issue.
For everyone else it really doesn’t matter, you will progress eventually regardless of having a couple of rets on your team. And any lack of progress will be for more reasons than just a ret being there.
Assuming you have a ret in your team who is actually trying, he will not be the worst DPS, there will be plenty of chad rogues and chad mages underperforming them. So why does it matter?
Why are you giving the ret grief and letting them off?
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This denial is so bad.
Logs say it is bad.
“OLOLOLOL LOGS ARE WRÖNG”
It is like trying to explain science to someone who believes in beared men in sky and other fairy tales.
Give us those logs that prove ret does decent dps. As real logs with other dps also doing something other than auto attack and wearing 2 tiers lower gear.
Don’t have them? Well therefore ret sucks with evidence given.
“there is video where retri one shots”
Yeah? There is also videos of mages and warriors doing 10k crits.
Doesn’t mean that is dps.
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Paladins can’t dps, you might be fooled into thinking they can when you’re levelling but the problem is you have no method of scaling. Paladins are just healers and support, nothing more. You can tank some dungeons sure, you can dps while levelling up but at the end of the day you’re just a healer.
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There’s 3 ret paladin logs for Molten Core / Onyxia and nearly 300 for Mage. If you want to talk about science then science doesn’t work how you think it works. Hypothesese are made with much larger amounts of testing.
From what little we see it doesn’t look good so far, can’t deny that. But it’s hard to say really from a survey sample that is 3 morons using AP and some oddball doing who knows what. There’s no proper spelladins in the stats at the moment.
Until we see that I consider your opinions about as valid as you see mine.
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We know from Vanilla and from private servers that Paladins can’t dps, of course there will be still Rets playing as the game is easy enough that you can carry a lot of deadweight, and given the state of the class balance that’s not a bad thing…
But you do have to face reality, Vanilla is like this
DPS Tier 1 = Mage, Warrior, Rogue
DPS Tier 2/Support = Warlock/Hunter
Dps Tier 3/Support = The one Shadow Priest in your raid
Everything else is a healer/support, druids can offtank a bit. Shaman, Druid and Paladin dps is just too low, it’s abyssmal.
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In an optimal team yes. If you raid hardcore yes. On paper yes. For every theorycrafted possible maybe situation yes. But in reality, for the majority of players, no. For most people it doesn’t matter. For every guild that isn’t pushing hard a ret will not be your worst DPS.
This is Classic, so play the classic way…
Do whatever you want, play however you want and enjoy yourself. Stop caring about what other people think about your choice of spec/talents.
Will you get invited to tier 1, 1% guild as a Retribution paladin?’
No, but neither will 99% of the rest of the players either.
The community is big enough that there will be guilds out there who are happy progressing at tourist mode speed with offspecs and misfits.
Just find one which will accommodate your play style.
Onyxia and Molten Core have already been cleared by groups with half the raid not even level capped, min/maxing really isn’t required…
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Esfand does show up in logs. Google legacyplayers. Search Esfand (the guy in Salad Bakers) Then to the right you can see latest logs. Look at any of the most recent logs, he is performing very badly at roughly tank dps. For example, on the naxx run from 8/9/2018 5:56 PM he was lowest dps at 233dps on boss and 96.6 on boss + trash while tank was at 213 and 91. Highest dps above 700 on boss and 300 on boss + Trash. So yes he is bassicly getting carried, just like anyone else raiding as ret. Raid id is 13083
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so what you want is to get carried?
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