Well said.
There was a post in the wow forums stating:
" If this is morally grey, I don’t want to see what ActivisionBlizzard considers evil".
I don’t remember since it was 9 months ago.
Cheers.
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I think you mean the forum posters, not the Alliance. Even you fellas know that you can’t dismantle the Horde, but you can sure make them go through another Mists of Pandaria.
You heard it here folks. The EU story forum Alliance wrote this story. And saying that is completely reasonable and not even remotely paranoid.
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Yeah, if the alliance fanboys cry they get everything from Blizz, lol xDDDDD
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Ahh yes, just like how the Kaldorei crushed the Horde in MoP and now control Azshara and most of the Barrens.
/s
…I guess it’s my own fault for stating how boring the forums had become between PTRs…
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We shall sacrifice you as the relevant gnome, Warchief.
puts his hand on the hilt of his blade
You presume to threaten the Warchief in the presence of his guard?
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Well I am happy that Lor’themar finally is back . Thrall have new model maybe because he gonna die -.- due Mak’gora …
According to the video, which I agree the author states:
" Orcish honour makes no sense."
“The definition is best described as lok’tar ogar”
Victory or death.
“To honor ones clan, to honour yourself.”
" There is no definition amongst Orcs clans".
“What honour is depends on what clan you are in or at what point you existed in the Horde and since the Horde changed clans it also changed their definition of honour.”
“To The Frostwolf Clan honor is pretty consistent with some real world definition of honour, where they would respect their elders and fellow clan members and treat other people with decency in the same way they wanted to be treated and to protect their clan while not forsaking their code of conduct.
Which is generally to be decent people.”
Thrall is son of Durotan from the Frostwolf Clan.
“The warding clan has a more Spartan definition of honour where strength is king and what ever is honourable is decided by who ever is the strongest.
The weakest ones contaminates the strength of the all in their eyes and to this end they exile people who forsake their honor and friends their infants who aren’t strong enough.”
That’s the clan from Grommash and Garrosh Hellscream.
“The BlackRock clan, has a code of honour very similar to the Warsong clan.
Except they also value blacksmith and mining in addition to military strenght.
The BlackRock clan was the most prominent in the wars on Azeroth as both 1st and 2nd Warchiefs of the Horde were BlackRock Orc members and they were the first clan to learn to use felt.magic by the Legion.”
That’s Saurfang clan.
“So for the most of the Orcish clans except the Frostwolf Clan honour to them was basically: Blood and glory.”
“To win was honourable, to lose was dishonourable.”
“That is to say there is no definition of what it is.”
"Honour is which ever Orc think it is.
"
“When Thrall reformed the Horde his definition of honour was pretty in lign with the Frostwolf clan, exept he extended to nclude all races not just Orcs, it was basically his only difference.”
“So which exactly this codes of honour does Saurfang subscribe to ?”
“An Orc - a true orc warrior - wishes for one thing: To die in the glory of battle against a hated enemy.
Addressing the might of Kalimdor during the second war of the shifting sands.”
" His ideal of honour is a morebattle oriented one. One that wishes the death in the battlefield."
Now let us jump to WoT where he throws his axe in Malfurio back.
“He also decides something is honourable when he decides arbitrary.”
“Since Saurfang sense of honour is arbitrary and something he makes on the spot that means Saurfang does what ever he wants and what ever he wants to do is honourable, what ever he doesn’t like is dishonourable.
Which means his sense of honour means literally nothing.
It’s just using the word honour to justify his feelings.”
“Do you know who else had a huge sense of Orcish honour ?
Let me show you this scene from siege of Ogrimar:”
We then see Garrosh Hellscream speech to Thrall.
“Garrosh did everything on the assumption of what Orcish honor meant, in his mind everything he did was Honourable and he had all the right in taking the all world and force Orc supremacy.
Because it was the honourable thing to do by his standards.”
“Garrosh even chastised Thall for not having enough honour.
What Garrosh is accessing and acting on it’s no different of what Saurfang does.
They both decide arbitrary what honour means to them and then push this belief on everyone else.”
"If Saurfang is Honourable than so is Garrosh and if Garrosh is considered Honourable than honour means nothing.’
I had a hard time accepting this, but in the end that’s why I consider honour as your own personal moral.
That line when you went too far.
In Injustice 2, when Red Hood meets Robin he tells him:
" There’s far and there’s too far."
Meaning the young boy crossed the line between being pragmatic and straight up villainy.
I hoped that helped Stelea.
I apologize for the text wall but that was not easy to explain.
Thanks to everyone for having the patience to read this far.
Cheers.
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I’m splendid! Came home and just sat down with my coffee, looking forward to reading all of these replies.
Wish it could rain here though, we’re in for a new drought #rip
A lot could be forgiven if that were to happen tbh.
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I partially watched that video, I think… and I didn’t finish because the claims made were just so much stronger than the evicence provided. He just assumed that he had a full picture of the different clans’ ideas of honour… which we really haven’t . Knowing a few rules is nothing, if there are quite a few more that we don’t know about and that could come into conflict with them.
Saying that orcish honour makes no sense because it doesn’t follow the rules we assumed it would, is like saying that morals make no sense, because neither pure utilitarianism, nor pure kantianism are practised anywhere.
Moral philosophy is complicated, and honour most certainly is a kind of moral construct. It will be strongly intervowen with the people, their history, their important thinkers, and their traditions. And that’s an area of world-building, where Blizzard was always scarce on details.
Or to make it short: We don’t know ![:poop:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/poop.png?v=6" ":poop:")
about orcish honour, not even that it doesn’t make sense.
(That’s not exclusive to orcs, by the way. With most of azeroth’s peoples our understanding of their moral values is very limited. Including humans.)
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Yes, sadly it’s exactly like MoP was.
I’d like to believe that, so far Blizzard hasn’t done anything to change my mind.
On the Sunreaver thing, it would be like if Alliance players were forced to kill Night Elves that were looking for revenge for Teldrassil.
My guess is that this wouldn’t be accepted well within the Alliance playerbase and especially among Nelf fans.
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I’ll trade Teldrassil burning down for a ‘Sunreaver [kill] thing’ any day of the week, belfy. A capital burning down for 4 guards dead and dozen(s?) of military and civilians dying by resisting arrest. You’re comparing a burnt pea to a Blighted and burnt grapefruit.
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No it wouldn’t.
Can you people stop comparing them ??? They are not the same at all.
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If said Night Elves made a deal with the devil? I would gladly kill them.
What if Humans were on the line.
Would you gladly kill them?
Yes? I killed Defias, I killed Human cultists, I killed Human warlocks, I killed Human death knights, I killed Arthas, etc.
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High chance we will have to kill Scarlets (aka former Lordaeron citizens who are just defending themselves) to save a dark ranger in 8.2. So it’s happening on both sides.
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