Sorry, but I doubt it has any meaning to discuss with you about this since you keep changing what makes night elf lore.
At first it was their presence, then it was because the zone was important/sacred to them, then it was because ancestral highborne were present, then it was about fleshing out what was important to the night elves as a whole.
You’re outright ignoring the presence of prominent, named and important for the story non-night elf characters, or that the highborne/kaldorei empire has descendants in more then just the night elves, or that more then just night elves consider (for example Hyjal) a sacred site.
They could involve the ghost of Vol’jin and more non-Human races in the Ebon Blade.
I only said that in each expansion they had something going for them. Either it is super minor stuff, or some pretty big. I don’t recall expansion where night elves literally did nothing.
I might’ve phrased some lines in bad manner, that is sadly one of my biggest faults. But I believe the point still stands that this race is fortunate to have rather consistent spotlight unlike others.
I didn’t but to claim that Hyjal was a Tauren themed story would be a big stretch.
No, In Legion we get a big chunk of actual nelf story. Regarding Malfurion, Illidan, about The battle of ancients, about Ravencrest, about Moonguard, A LOT of meaningful stuff that still applies to them. Obviously NB are dirrent thing now, but there was still proper nelf lore in Legion expansion and plenty of big characters were involved in the story. Tyranda, Malfurion, Illidan, Maiev. The entire druid order hall was pretty much run by them. Meanwhile even shaman order hall can’t have OG Horde presence.
Of course it’s subjective what one finds important, but I stand my ground that nelves had consistent attention. Could be better, could be worse but they still had it.
If someone attacks you, without provocation, they are a combatant. “Troll societys almost no combatants” is astrange take, because nearly every member of every troll society is a combatant.
Really? That is your take? The Shatter invading the lands of the night elves in service of the Horde, makes it their land?
This has nothing to do with the intelligence of the character. The Shatterspear illegally seized the land and their workers act like defenders, making them combatants.
Reather than the faction containing the darkspear, who actively subverted their plans in Cata.
What?
Then she is a fool.
Why do all of you miss the point with this, even when I spell it out for you?
The point is not that Talanji should logically do something about this. The point is that she has no right to complain about what the Alliance did in Zuldazar when her people did this.
So Talanji not thinking the war has gone too far when her people slay other people’s fathers , but only when the enemy kills her father, is not hypocricy? That is just something I pulled out of my nose? You have no grasp on any of this.
To not die.
Which mass slaugther?
He would be alive had he not done so.
What does this even mean.
That post was no directed at you.
This means nothing.
And they did not, because their fleet was gone. Had Rastakhan surrendered, Sylvanas would have never been able to send her fleet to Nazsjatar from Zuldazar, meaning we would not have an old god problem on our hands. The plan was good, the Alliance underestimated Rastakhan’s arrogance.
Bias aside, Night elves are one of the few races that has had staple development and spotlight regarding their issues.
To the point both their leaders have been protagonists in cross stories that involved people from both factions, and have had several novels featuring their importance in the overarching plot.
Natural problems? Malfurion is the go to. Druidism? Everyone bends over Night elf themes and issues.
War? Ashenvale becomes the staging ground for conflict, and contrary to what happens in plenty other places, is something explicitly addressed whenever any war needs some closure.
BfA marks a new high in that regard. Not only has Blizzard bothered to write an exclusive story that delves into the consequences of meddling with Night elf interests, but also has written actual closure for the biggest issues suffered.
In a setting that often ignores the follow up, and specially in an expansion that clearly has its favourites, Night elves got instant (attempted) gratification for their wrongings.
Whereas other races have been left with their players having to suck on offscreen lazy fixes that leave them hanging. And that’s the best case scenario for many.
What “to fix” waiting have Night elves had? Failing to live up to the power fantasy cliche certain people have about them?
The plan, to use Anduin’s own words, was to drive a wedge between the Zandalari and the horde - and they achieved the exact opposite.
It was naive and stupid to hope that Rastakhan- a very proud king of a very proud people- would surrender to a force that had just raided his very home, especially when they had no means to actually occupy the city and the horde army was already on their way to chase them out.
And Genn’s words confirm that he did not really expect that either:
“He was a casualty of war, Anduin. A king must be willing to sacrifice himself for his people without doubt or hesitation.”
Also, the golden fleet was not “gone”, they destroyed “more than half” of it which is not the same as “all of it”.
But yes, the Kul Tiran fleet outnumbered them now and they could ( and should ) have pressed the attack- but didn’t because “hey, killing their king is okay, but attacking again while they still mourn him wouldn’t be very nice”?
Giving Sylvanas all the time she needed to do what she did next and render all their previous efforts to naught.
Destroying the enemy’s greatest weapon and leaving one of their nations unable to wage war on you is a great plan.
So? Even if they failed and the Zandalari were angered, they would be no threat to the Alliance, as their fleet was gone.
In essence: They took a chance that could result in Zandalar being completely eliminated from the war, at the cost of angering them, while they would have few means of retaliating. There was very little risk involved and plenty of pay off.
Actually, Anduin concluded that they would press on, but be careful. But because Horde plot armor (like how they suffered no repercussions after SoO), the writers never decided to follow up from that.
If they had stopped there, yes.
Destroying the Zandalari fleet ( or rather, a large part of it ) was a great success for the alliance- or would have been, if they had sent the Kul Tiran fleet afterwards and not waited for Azshara to sink it as well.
Raiding the city and killing Rastakhan however was unnecessary and stupid, and all they gained from it was fueling the Zandalaris hatred towards the alliance even more- despite the initial plan to drive a wedge between them and the horde.
Not really. The Zandalari still had a considerable army and the fighting continued even fiercer than before. Also, Gelbin almost died, Jaina barely escaped and was badly wounded as well. Not to speak of the alliance suicide squad in Nazmir who made the attack possible in the first place. Not what I’d call “little risk and plenty pay off”.
Yes, but he didn’t.
And “because horde plot armor” is hardly an argument, when the horde war effort suffered from the exact same idiotic writing before. They had the Abyssal Scepter in their possession- a powerful magical weapon able to destroy the Kul Tiran fleet- but didn’t use it but stowed it away in Rastakhan’s treasury so the alliance could steal it back and use it against them.
Sure. But as I said, continually being dumbed down is something that applies to both sides in bfa’s narrative.
Not really, the Horde wasn’t dumbed down because it didn’t have the means to start or remain in the war in the first place if the Alliance wasn’t dumbed down.
That’s you basically saying: Ignore the troll fan base. Ignore the kaldorei fan base. I don’t want a story, or an ending. They should get nothing. Got it.
You are talking here about game mechanics. You are an enemy on hostile land. I mean alliance farmers are attacking me on sight. I guess they are combatants too, in their own fields right? This is simple silly.
Yes. All land is troll land.
No.
In fact yes. Because the Darkspears are trolls and have a way bigger inside view. That’s exactly why they still could talk to the Horde.
Sigh. Every Troll leader captured from the Alliance ever got murdered. Talanji would be stupid going to their old enemies.
Yes, she does. And she did not complain. Or show me where she did. She acted on it.
Why would she think that?
She never said that.
Pretty much. She know that’s war.
If a troll leader surrenders to the alliance, not only will he die, but his people too. So no, not a god call. They have no reason to surrender.
Every troll location ever.
Sure… No, he had no choice.
I know. Still I gave you a good answer And you can’t say anything back.
I’m not even going to address this. My only response to this mess is: That’s silly.
Edit:
I agree with most of your post. But I think there are things that could be fixed for them.
Im not saying they have it all perfect. But the sort of tweaks to be had, pale in comparison to the glaring issues other races suffer from.
Simplifying it all by saying “yeah, they too need some fixing”, in a setting that already bends to try and lighten their burden for war consequences, and in a place that already turns a blind eye to a whole lot of severe stuff for other races…seems like comparing the needs of someone with a broken leg and those of someone in a wheelchair and saying both guys have “problems”.
I guess it depends on how your looking at it. Night Elves feel for myself very wrong in WoW. But you have a point.
And yes, other races do also need way more attention overall. I don’t argue against that.
You completely missed the point. Raiding the city could have resulted in removing the Zandalari from the war altogether. An angry Zandalari were little threat without the fleet, but still a threat. Conquering them would allow the Alliance acces to their resources while denying them to the Horde.
If that were the case, which it was not, they disappeared from the story almost entirely and struggled to even beat the naga, then all the more reason to conquer them and eliminate their threat completely.
Almost being the keyword. The Horde fought back harder than anticipated. But look at what they gained. Rastakhan could defend an entire city by himself with Bwonsamdi’s power. Now he is gone.
That was necesarry for launcing the attack in the first place.
And that is a limit imposed by bad storytelling, not the logic that should occur in the story.
Yes.
That is not what I said at all, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
No, I am talking about their reaction to the player in universe.
So were they.
Difference here is that they are in their own fields, meaning you are actually trespassing, while the Shatterspear invaded night elven lands. But yeah, if Alliance farmers attacked you, and you had no reason to respect their laws, you would be justified in defending yourself.
Let us see. Zul’farrak and Zul’drak in ruins. Zul’gurub and Zul’aman both shadows of their former selves. Zandalar a third of an island. Does not look good mon.
Someone who actively engages someone else in combat is not a combatant? I can see you are not very skilled in semantics.
In that case, she was doomed to fail from the start. I blame Rastakhan for not doing anything about the threats to his Kingdom and forcing her to make a bargain that could only lead to his death.
Eh, no. That is not true.
“De Alliance must be brought to justice for my father’s death.”
She also called the Alliance murderers when chasing them. Apparently the Zandalari can murder civilians in Anglepoint, but when the Alliance kills someone she loves, its evil.
Because she is a hypocrite with no thought for her actions or empathy for the victims of her descisions?
Again, she did nothing when her people massacred Anglepoint. She only expresses anger over casualties when she is affected. That is what makes her a hypocrite. SHe literally joined the side that commited genocide and only called someone out for injustices when she was affected. That is blatant hypocricy.
If she knew “that’s war” she would accept her father’s death as justified.
You are pulling this out of your nose. Remember how the Alliance did not kill Talanji and instead captured her? Proof of your lies. The Alliance had no reason to kill him if he surrendered, and he never said anything about refusing to surrender because they would kill him anyway.
I asked for events, not places.
“Surrender or die” is not a choice?
You cannot possibly answer criticism that is not directed at you. You can argue all you want about who deserves Vengeance. That is not what I argued about. I criticised OP’s blatant double standards. So no, it was not a “good answer” because the accusation was to leveled at you and you did not actually answer it.
Ah yes, you know someone is right when they refuse back up their statements. I am sooooo convinced what I said was silly and that you are not just using that as an excuse to not engage with an argument you know you cannot refute.
No. You are just very entitled and watching the whole narrative from the Alliance’s, humans to be specific, point of view. I ain’t even responding to your other answer since I can already sense how another respond would look like. You got the self reflection skills of a solid brick wall.
Funny how you didn’t say that same thing to Quizan or whatever his name is, since he started it. That you aren’t even trying to hide your bias, it’s amazing to watch.
Trolls have been beaten down much harder over the years. Yet they never threw a similar rage like the alliance community over it. Lasting for serveral years even. Now a single troll fan makes a suggestion that blizzard might give the trolls something good. That’s not including being killed, or treated as loot fodder for raids. After like 15 years of bad treatment, and you think it’s bias? Really?