That… doesn’t mean the joke was successful…
Nope, I am dropping out of this because I can already tell it will be a rtarded discussion.
Pity. I was hoping to hear a good Kul Tiran joke.
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Eh, okay, give me 10 seconds.
Okay I just came up with a joke that is just so funny, you will not believe it:
Why is it that every mainlander immediatly jumps to the conclusion that Kul Tiras is infested with Old Gods? Sure, we make giant tentacle statues and carve squid faces all over the place but… oh… yeah… I see!
Ha ha ha.
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I like big boats and I cannot lie! is still my favorite 
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It’s special in the sense that no other race has been given this amount of care and spotlight, in such an immediate way, regardless if they had similar losses or not.
Without looking far, Tyrandes plea was given voice, spotlight, and actual relevance. To the point they created a beginning, a development, and a conclusion ranging across several instances that aimed at compensating or softening the blows she suffered.
On the other hand, you had the Zandalari case, who had their leader notably absent while her allies brokered peace with the one that killed her father and raided their city. Zero reaction, questline or feature so far, in a timestamp that has Night elves going over an exclusive story that delves into the consequences and eventual overcoming of several core issues that they suffered throughout this war.
Another case? Forsaken remain with zero clues about the state of their lands, with zero story drive to signal whatever they want to do about it, or what their goals are going forth.
More? Going back to previous examples you have Gilneas swinging back and forth in its nebulous state of uncertainty, orcs needing from Twitter to actually have anything remotely related to leadership development, trolls being dumped under a similar bus,…
In all, I do think what Night elves had here IS special. As never before has Blizzard bothered to give this sort of attention in order to pull out the hole a race they previously kicked into it. The fact that this comes at a time when several others are suffering from similar cases, further highlights just how much it stands out.
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Could you expand upon this?
I know in Warcraft III that the Kul Tirans attacked Echo Isles and occupied it for a short while, but Jaina, or the Alliance, never directly attacked the Echo Isles, they did have three ships and a base in Durotar though and they did take over Tiragarde Keep after the Cataclysm.
Also, the Kor’kron and True Horde didn’t attack Echo Isles either, because if they did (like the THeramorians), they would’ve taken all the trolls they could reach prisoner and executed them in Orgrimmar and that’d mean Vol’jin and the Darkspear couldn’t lead the Darkspear Rebellion.
Unless the two Alliance attacks and a Kor’kron attack were in a book?
To be fair, I think the writers don’t really know what to do with the Zandalari. They’re not one of the major races of the Horde, they’re not actually even members of the Horde, but they can’t continue the war either because that’d would gameplay wise immediatly mean the Horde had to get involved.
They just did a stupid with making the Zandalari allies, instead of members of the Horde. Every other allied race became a member nation of the Alliance/Horde.
Don’t we actually know what the state of the Forsaken’s “homelands” are, though? We know Lillian Voss and the new Dark Rangers aparently lived in Tirisfal(??) for a while, and we know that the bases and villages surrounding Brill are stilll active and populated by Forsaken citizens and soldiers.
They still did Vol’jin a dirty, and instead of developing Vol’jin’s last living son they gave Rokhan as a leader??? wtf Blizz, perfect time to introduce a new, competent, troll leader and they ruined it. FML.
That said, I do think every faction and every race suffers from the current status quo, from the need to balance everything and horrible writers.
They did in Cataclysm, the Northwatch forces, they already breached to Valley of Trials, they besieged Mulgore and they were about to attack Echo Isles. The assulat plans were in the place where previously centaurs were .
And later in table missions in BfA Alliance is striking on Echo Isles.
The point was that EI were frequently attacked and they had it rough from the very start.
Garrosh put the Echo Isles on Martial Law, this is why Vol’Jin gave the player HS to port to Thrall, Thrall then goes to Echo Isles to liberate it and free the trolls.
Then Kor’Kron made raids on Sen’Jin village. Look it up.
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Ah, yes I did that quest and the Alliance or Northwatch didn’t actually invade the Echo Isles. Having plans to do it and actually doing it are two different things. So that doesn’t really count, I think.
And to be fair, Assault tables are questionable lore… at best, I mean according to assault tables the Alliance and Gilneans had an entire army in Gilneas and Warden Stillwater was raising mindless undead to fight for the Forsaken, do we take those at face value to and accept that the one thing that seperated the Forsaken from the Scourge is gone?
Not saying the trolls didn’t have it rough, mind you, they were frequently attacked by the naga and betrayed by one of their own ofcourse.
Damn, should do those quests on my proud Darkspear troll 
But only recently I started playing Horde again
Point being, that amongst the pile of bad writing, handwaving, retcons, and overall alienation of several races, with this latest information Blizzard has nailed yet another bit onto their particular Night elf statue.
They are now one of the only races that have been given exclusive insight and individuality, in a setting that seems to actively turn a blind eye to a wide range of races that have suffered under similar circumstances.
Some of which have been on a “To fix” waiting list for several years and a couple expansions.
Ps: Not saying they are currently out of any kind of harm by the way. But the active effort Blizzard has put regarding their problems, at this point is just heaps ahead every other race that has suffered under similar issues.
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There was also Tide of Wars novel where Horde and Jaina’s forces clashed already.
They’re there for a reason, I will treat is as canon unless it will be flat out said that it was not. It would be pretty weird to all of these side stories to show us “World at War” to be labelled as “not-canon”.
5.3 content isn’t available anymore but the 5.1 quests ( which did involve Vol’Jin) are still there to witness.
Ok, I cannot argue with that if you put it that way.
Honestly, I don’t think it’s too bad that the night elves finally get a bit of focus. They’ve been on this “To Fix” list since vanilla World of Warcraft.
I mean, sure the orcs, humans, blood elves and forsaken are abit anoying, but atleast we’ve gotten a sight into their cultures, what changed, what didn’t change, what they hoped for their futures etc we had nothing of the kind for the night elves except that they existed to get beaten by angry orcs all the time and now that they’ve lost their most populous city and become anrgy wood elves, people are up in arms about there being too much focus on the night elven story.
And I now realise this sounds to much like a poor night elf rant… but I don’t know how to put it into better words :sadGnome:
Honestly, no race or faction is out of harms way, trust me if Blizzard wants to, the Horde is suddenly again the weaker of both factions tomorow and the Forsaken near extinct.
Alright, should read the books eventually too! (again)
Fair enough, that’s your right ofcourse.
Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that for this expansion (and Ardenweald next one) it’s the night elves moment to shine instead of angry orcs, scheming humans, backstabbing blood elves or scary forsaken. And I am fine with that
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Night elves get focus almost each expansion. Especially in LEgion a huge chunk of the Lore was dedicated to their past. Even in WoD they had unique questline about Moonwell creation, they had Wardens taking more active role. Meanwhile Tauren besides recruiting first follower were pretty much completely absent from the story.
In MoP they had strong presence in Krasarang, in Cataclysm they had Hyjal questing, Molten front offensive quests where they push through firelands which ended in defeating Firelord.
Night Elves had enormous amount of spotlight, and more is coming in SL.
Which cannot be said about worgen, about gnomes, about dwarves, about tauren - unless you count the example where one is turned to a blue human.
And Zarao has a very strong point. Darkspears only had Vol’Jin, and he was killed unceremoniously, replaced with Sylvanas andpretty much leaving a huge void inhis place. They didn’t get any shiny mount, or tusk ornament for the loss. Entire expansion span without update on them, and even Ion mocked them openly “Vol’Jin’ is dead. What update do you need?”. By the end of BfA we finally get a memo that Rokhan is stepping up. But the fact is they should’ve develop him much sooner for that role. Not after they found themselves with zero fitting support character to fit in the role of leadership and pretty much starting from point zero.
I really felt sorry for nelfies at the beginning, but for all those years I also saw unhealthy amount of entiltement from some of their fans.
I’d rather for someone else to shine really. Especially the races that have deep connection to death realm. So one would think that Horde having such an intimate bond with ancestors, communications with fallen spirits and afterlife could step up.
I especially feel sorry for Tauren, I’d rather if their customs were fleshed out. They were either “forever sidekicks” or mishandled offscreen.
I also wish Darkspears could shine because trolls overall has very strong connection with death realms, they practicioned necromancy but unlike Scourge it was not to create an army but for more understandable reasons. They have literal Death Loa, and unresolved issue with Vol’Jin. But we keep getting updates on nelves in the various articles. It really makes me doubt we would even get meaningful closure with Vol’Jin when his issue is on stall since Legion. BfA didn’t really give any solid answers. And yet I am worried that we will get identical deal as it was with Legion. 
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By that logic, the blood elves, forsaken, orcs, , tauren, humans and trolls have been (heavily) present every expansion too.
Sorry, but I don’t think a single little questline about making a Moonwell and having a Warden act as a glorified bodyguard for Khadgar of the Kirin Tor count as a “presence”. Also about their Legion lore, as many nightborne and blood elf fans would love to tell you, Highborne lore =/= night elf lore 
Scouting party that ran into a trap, sorry but by that logic the tauren were (heavily) present too because of Sunwalker Dezco for the Horde and the ancestral yaungol in general, the questing in Molten Front had alot of the neutral Wild Gods and Hamuul Runetotem and tauren druids present too so that’s not night elf exclusive. Or is neutral lore night elf lore too? Because then I have good news for tauren players and lore!
Which I agree with, as I said before, they did the trolls a dirty.
And the same can be said from human fans, from orc fans, from forsaken fans, from most of the fans that focus or prefer one race over another.
Also, about stepping up in Shadowlands… None of the racial factions should step up for that expac, it should be the Ebon Blade, but the fact taht Tyrande can go to the afterlife on the one hand makes me angry, on the otherhand… eh, they deserve closure for their World Tree.
Talanji deserved more. Trolls are huge on vengeance. It is extremely strange that she’s ignored. The Gurubashi War was lead for vengeance (at least in the movie verse).
Vengeance for Zul’jin.
How many times?
Vengeance for Vol’jin.
There relay should be something. At least a dialogue that explains why the situation right now is accepted. At the very least. Your stance is quite rich. Every character deserves more. Everyone deserves an explanation for why X is happening. Every fan base has something deserved.
Whaaaat? But to be clear: Troll society has almost no “not combatants”. Sure there are some, but not that many.
I’m not going to argue over an NPC name here. But that’s a strange take.
Really that’s you’re take? Going on to hostile lands is now… smart? If you’re at war it’s clear what will happen.
You’re joking right? The faction with the oldest enemies of her race (well second…or third oldest), is the faction she would talk to? And the Alliance would not take her prisoner or murder her? Like they murdered every Troll before and her father later on. Also it shouldn’t matter for Trolls if someone wages war against their old enemies. In fact they would join.
She had no reason to expect any help from the Alliance at all. Not after the Isle of Thunder fiasco.
Why would she do anything against that? There is no reason for her to do so.
You mean your pulling this out of your nose. That’s it. And why would any troll ever surrender to the Alliance? Oh right to accept the next mas slaughter. Rasthankans choice to stay his ground was the only good one.
Again pulling stuff our of your nose. No the Kaldorei deserve vengeance. And so does Talanji. That’s not “bias”, even though I have a Troll bias. That’s giving story to both sides.
And I don’t even mean: Talanji should kill Jaina or something like that. But there needs to be closure for this arc and there wasn’t (same goes for the Night Elves). I would like to see her stand against the peace. But at least give us closure. And not noting.
Ok this response was desperate. Because you’re ignoring the context. Yes, the Alliance was created later. But:
This is going back to the first wars.
And no that’s not a hill I will die on today. But I have to give you those arguments back.
Yeah attack a nation (that at least once warned you from a world ending thread) is never going to backfire and letting them to take up arms against you.
I was just showing example that each time they had SOMETHING to do. Or you’re going to willingly ignore the Legion set up which had a big chunk of content dedicated to them.
And name one example where Tauren did something 100% on their own. Not as a sidekicks. A full Tauren campaign (Bloodhoof that is) where they made a call and did something for their own sake. I’ll wait.
Tauren were the sidekicks there. Hyjal is sacred nelf land. Tauren were preent there so the Horde had a bit of involvement, otherwise this zone would be only Alliance content zone.
Or you’re going to dismiss the importance of Hyjal and Nordrassil because it was leveling zone for both factions?
That doesn’t change the fact that a big chunk of the lore in that zone was about fleshing out what was important for nelves.
Tauren didn’t have any meaningful gains in there, they were sidekicks, that did it because druidscare for nature.
Fandral Staghelm was also very important night elf figure, that nelf which burned alive hamuul also had a big share of history.
That is true, but orc fans are almost non existant these days. Actual fans that care for their lore. They were completely broken. Forsaken fans also seemed to completely give up as their identity was completely tarnished.
Trolls were always shown to be the guys that always lose, but at the very least their identity is intact, so long their essence is still there, there is still a point in playing them and pushing in for better tomorrow.
I disagree that Ebon blade should be the only one to lead the charge, beacause Ebon blade and run by Bolwar, and it would again bring back the call back to Legion, where mostly humans run the show.
Ofc I might be wrong there. But I’d still have some racial stories put into this expansion as BfA didn’t really give trolls any proper wrap up.
And Tauren heritage quest chain also promised some tauren involvement. There has to be better afterlife for them than those 4 convenants.
Night elves, dwarfs, high elves, humans. Or are you counting old God servants as the oldest here?
It really isn’t. With the attack on zuldazar, there ain’t a single troll place that wasn’t teabagged by the PCs anymore.
Yep I’m counting the Aqir / old God servants as the first.
(Edit: And so did Zul’jin.)
Forsaken were undeath before DKs made it cool. But you won’t see their involvement anymore because blizzard decided that the icon of their entire culture would betray them in the worst way possible.
That’s what I was saying. They were portrayed as those who were attacked, and forced to deal with it. No martyrology for them narration wise. But trolls as a race stil keep their nature/essence.
So there is a room for them to grow eventually. That is if devs would actually dare to explore troll narration/agency. Not that I count on it, but just saying it’s not impossible.
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