Pay to win is rampant

WoW IS pay to win because by paying you win… certain things.

As far as their importance goes, this is where opinions differ.

If you pay for a Curve boost and you get a time limited mount you won something. To a mount collector that’s a win.

Jito is right here. If you can obtain a reward in game by using real money then it’s pay to win. That IS the definition of it.

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Sure, but thats also why its subjective and people need to accept and understand this.
To you(not you specifically) that might count as a win, where to another it doesnt. Meaning to you that action is P2W and to another it is not.
There is no textbook definition for this and there never will be.
Its like the term “casual”. You can never reach a definite conclusion on what that actually means.

Good point. I think this is the best way to put it.

Correct.

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Can you name one part of progression in Wow that it is not made possible with enough gold?

I refuse to get into this discussion, but thank you very much for caring.
And yes you can assume whatever you want to assume from this reply, it means nothing to me.

I’m counting this as a win!

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Ill give it to you gladly! Have a beer as well! :beers:

You already decided you were part of the discussion with your previous statement.

My point is that P2W permeates all aspects of Wow. There is no metric that cannot be made easier or even fully achievable with gold. This idea that P2W can only be subjective if there are areas where it cannot be attained. EVERYTHING is Wow is designed to be made easier with gold, and since you can buy gold then Wow is P2W.

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I don’t like beer :dracthyr_cry:

And it’s still a choice to participate in it or not.
Don’t want to throw gold at something, collect/do/make it yourself.
That includes clearing raids.

And yes, that takes effort.

What about some Christmas leftovers? I have a bunch of ham?

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…keep talking

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A bunch of Vulpera like a team of meerkats rasied their heads in unision and looked at Zentria

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Christmas leftovers? I’m sure the lady said Christmas leftovers!!!

Yes!
Yes she did!

When all things can be made easier with a credit card, then that is a pure definition of P2W. P2W does not have to be exclusive, it only has to be a feature. Your premise that P2W cannot be defined is not valid.

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Like the tiny fox said:
…keep talking
:wolf:

You are talking rubbish.

The concept of “winning” dosent exist in wow. You dont kill Ansurek in HC and a message pops up that sais:

Congratulations, you beat wow. You killed the big boss. Roll Credits !

What people buy are short-cuts. Not “winning”. And buying shortcuts is something that has existed since the dawn of time. Even in games like Tetris and Doom I. It existed in Everquest 40 years ago, and it STILL exists today.

Heck… even at the airport security you can pay 12E to get to the “fast security lane”. Is that boosting too ?

So stop complaining.

And you Jito you keep talking about the token when its pure BS and you know it. Boosting existed before the token, and will exist even if they delete the token tomorrow.

So its not the token.

And to prove my point, I am currently playing Darktide. In that game you dont even have currency at all ! There is no trade. No gear to farm. No tokens. No subscription. NOTHING.

And yet…

https://skycoach.gg/warhammer-40000-darktide-boost/products/havoc-6614?srsltid=AfmBOoo-35sF1xwqmUkZ4EJxcBpg0YeaEuLa_YFhjaxaJeCcx4sFI5-z

What the hell is that then ? Where are the tokens in Darktide ?

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What is considered progression? I’ll bring out the one example i used last time the p2w discussion came up, the Taivan mount. For collectors thats progression and u cant buy a boost for gold for that without also having to break tos.

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No amount of gold ,gear, or anything that I could buy with gold would prevent even a half blind octogenarian with the bare minimum of skills to wipe the floor with me in PvP
It literally can’t be Pay to Win if I can’t "win’ by paying…

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