Pay to win is rampant

:dracthyr_shrug:
Dunno what to tell you. This game is mundane when it comes to “P2W”.
You want to throw additional money at someone, then that’s up to you.
As was pointed out earlier, it means absolutely nothing to someone else whether you have “curve” or paid someone to get you a mount.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Dont sell yourself too short :rofl: What Ive witnessed you on forum you seem like person with plenty of intelligence score. Outplay potentials usually happen mostly from the processing power of the computer from between ones ears, in theory someone with less exp than other can still win another one by outplaying them with enviroment or something else they think to use for the moment. As a warlock with high intelligence score like yourself Im sure you could think of something to gain distance from your opponent and find safety among the other players in your team or the like :smiley:

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Well it would be reasonable to say that WoW has different gameplay aspects, like Arenas, raiding, Mythic+, collecting mounts, doing achievements, and so on.

And it would also be reasonable to say that players tend to focus on advancing their characters toward a chosen aspiration within one or more of those gameplay aspects.

For example, some players might aspire to advance their character toward getting the Elite set from Arenas and collecting 600 mounts, and for other players it might be clearing the raid on Heroic mode and getting Ahead of the Curve, or perhaps qualifying for the MDI.

The game basically presents us with lots of goals to pursue, and then we can pick and choose to our liking.
That’s sort of the buffet that an MMO tends to put on offer. Pick whatever you fancy!

But regardless of what gameplay aspect you’re focusing on, where you’re advancing your character, and what you’re ultimately aspiring toward, you can almost always make that process faster and easier by using money.

The only gameplay aspect I can think of where that isn’t the case, is pure roleplaying.

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In pvp people used to buy seasonal achievements with gold for mounts I would imagine cause the achievements itself are pretty meaningless on these persons when it comes evident after one match played with them that they have bought boost and have no clue of anything at all of the game outside of their dps rotations. So I cant imagine any other value for bought ranks other than if they really want some mount or something I guess, still I consider it pretty lame to buy something in competitive setting and kinda defeats the whole purpose of the game itself to “cheat” it.

Also now that they have shifted pvp mostly into soloqs where people cant really setup boost teams those sales have shifted towards piloted boosts I believe so they are sharing their account to someone who is piloting it and would also break tos with it.

Simply what? You could not buy a raid boost in DF? OFC you could.
As for breaking the TOS, have you left trade chat or something? There are a multitude of lvl 10 players offering boosts for many areas. Bli££ard has allowed this practise to go on for years. If people want boost they need gold, who do you think is going to sell that gold?

This is very evidently wrong. Twitch streamers and raiders like method show that people do care about it. So much so, that these people can gain substantial sponsorships to make it worth their while.

That is the main point though. A “dim witted octogenarian” does not have to be playing the game. You can literally just hand your account to another who will do the job for you. They will do this for gold as gold can be used for RMTs.

Prove of this is gained just by looking towards the world first guilds. They spend large amounts of cash on organisation and the AH. All to make sure they are very well prepared when the newest raids open up. If P2W is not a factor in Wow then why do the organisations with the most cash gain those world firsts?
World firsts will never be achieved by normal guilds while the game is so closely aligned with RMTs. Money talks, it talks very loudly in Wow.

In general, in a video game, I think if someone wants to get something, the point of the game is to get it yourself, or else the game is pretty pointless to play at all, for example if someone were to use some hackpack on a shooter, it would completely defeat the purpose of the game and the value of the skill and training of the person to eventually get the enjoyment of becoming good at something that you can’t get by cheating.

You clearly dont know what the Taivan mount requires to obtain.

But that’s a very specific achievement, and no one is playing WoW just to get the Taivan mount. Those who go for it are usually completionists or collectors for whom the mount is just one part of a larger aspiration – to collect all the mounts or have all the achievements, or something like that.

I mean, if we get nitty-gritty about it, then you can’t use money to progress the achievement for To All The Squirrels I’ve Loved Before. The one where you have to /love a bunch of different critters.
But that doesn’t refute the fact that achievements in general can be advanced quite effectively with the use of money.

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Im not arguing that, ofc you can buy boosts for stuff. Have never said anything else.

For myself personally I whole hearted agree with you. Any achievement that is paid for in a game has zero value for me. I saw what botting did to Diablo 2. Something I was as guilty as the rest for taking part in. Diablo 2 was broken with the botting programme that people ran back in the early 2000’s. It demolished the currency along with the game. I have a strong dislike for botting systems because of it. I also remember vividly buying an armour set to boost a cleric I had in the game Rift. It left such a sour taste that I never played that character again.

This does not mean that others see it that way though. People thrive on looking good in life as well as in game. It does not matter how that is earned. I would bet we all know at least one player who has an ego trip in guild chats because they have a higher score than most. On occasion, you will see those clowns in general chat, as they cannot not always contain themselves. All the while forgetting that everything in Wow is just pixels.

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Hands up. I did not because I do not profess to be the one who knows every single achievement in Wow. If you got it well done for you. If it brings you some happiness, then great stuff.

But… as for all things Wow it is very easy to look up.

The first four on that list, It would be my very subjective view, that they were the biggest sold products for boosters in DF. As for the rest, I would be very surprised if you could not just pay some to do it for you. I seem to remember a trader offering multiple types of levelling boosts in trade at one point. There was a price point for max level with storyline complete and another for max level with keystone achievement. It is like I said throw enough gold around in Wow, or RMT for that matter, and nothing is impossible.

People would do well to remember that when they start ranting on an epeen ego trip.

You can’t buy a carry for Zek’whateverhisnameis solo, you cannot buy a carry for MTs, but those are very specific as well aren’t they?

No one is playing WoW just to get something specific. Those that buy boosts usually do it to get the achievement so they can get invited to groups, and we have already been over this those that bough the boosts don’t survive in said groups for long.

In the grand scheme of things, I would say so, yes.

In a game where there are a myriad of ways to advance your character, goals to aspire toward, and content to engage in, and where money can influence most of it, I don’t think the few individual examples where that’s not the case detract from the grand scheme of things.

You miss the point. Every single achievement is “very specific”, even AotC/CE, KSM/KSH, Glad, everything. In the grand scheme of things all that matters is did you do it yourself or did you pay to get it done.

That is purely down to market forces. Zekvir requires ilvl as well as skill. You can buy the ilvl without a doubt. Offer enough on a RMT site and someone will do it for you. The mage tower had a price if I remember correctly.

And the appeal would have gotten ignored. That people were being caught in the crossfire was nothing new.

People also got banned for it as you “could” buy boosts which required the buyer to log into your account and then well… Blizzard banned you.

Its pay to progress, not win. You could buy all the gear in the world and still be trash at the game in theory.

And get banned. As people did for MT.

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There is literally a thread right now about Zek, where people are killing him with sub 610 ivl. If you need a boost to get taht ilvl you are not killing Zek.

Also dependent on the class hes a joke.

No, I don’t think I miss the point. Sinaaki questioned what constituted progression and brought up the example of the Taivan mount as something that couldn’t be bought with money.
I simply made the point that an exception to the rule proves the rule, because that is one mount out of nearly a thousand. And it’s one specific form of progression in a game with a myriad forms of progression – where most can be advanced with money.

Your addition to that little exchange was then to point out that there are other exceptions to the rule, like Zek’vir and the Mage Tower. And that’s cool, but that still doesn’t change the fact that money can be used for many things in WoW. Most things even.