I really don’t get you people. What do you think it’ll be different when you join a guild run. Do you think you’ll be able to get that torch ttd key and boes to yourself? Let me tell you this. NO
I’ve played this game casualy, semi-hardcore and no-lifer. I’ve been inside out of every aspect of this era. Both private and retail.
I’ve never seen a raider guild lets a new player a valuable item. (it doesn’t have to be your first raid. You wont be considered as a let alone core member even as a regular member in most guilds at least you raid with them 3-4 lockouts)
Sure, they may want to spoil you if they see a potential. You may get couple temporary upgrade items over even core raider/GM/raid leader but never a BiS. You just don’t have any chance. If you get it by accident somehow (for ex. they may already have it) they will still not be happy about it. I knew I’ve been in that officer chats many times.
So its same thing with different masks. People want those BiS items continue to serve their runs. And so they res them, just deal with it. It’s not worth to grow a cancer inside of you over game stuff.
Or you can roll up your sleaves and become a raid leader yourself. But I really want to talk to you after you constantly host a raid for weeks and then suddenly your BiS drops first time then you lose it to a guy who is one of the worst performer in that raid.
P.S. : Yes there are exceptions, one time I was in a guild I recently joined as Assas rogue which they already have two in their raid team and one of them was guild master. I was just pre-raid bis and performed so well and they got so impressed and gave me the first sinister revenge drop. But that’s only happened one time in my entire life.
And of course there are greedy pigs who wants to get everything. Same thing applies to guilds and pugs both. Well you can’t be in right place all the time…
Thats kinda out of topic here. I am talking about cheering and crying about this in forums/lfg channels etc. I don’t mean people who doesnt join such raids or guilds. Of course you always have that option.
Players are different than what they were back then. Personal benefit is the most pursued thing and 99% guilds fail/refuse to accept this shift in player mentality. Of course guilds always prioritize guild benefit over personal benefit, however, with the popularity of megaservers it’s just way too easy for individual members to look for other easier and more convenient options such as SR pugs or GDKP pugs. I strongly think that in order to survive in the long run, guilds that don’t consist of at least 80% die-hard loyal core need to change something in order to preserve the guild spirit, but catter to needs of individuals at the same time. I’ve been through 4 guild disbands during TBC, 3 of them due to many players seeking other, more individual-friendly options (read GDKP).
HR is just fancy name for being ninja, no matter how you wrap it …
SR isnt bad idea, but its again the people who kinda fail to use it (same like gs and other stuff) …
Whats the point of making SR, when 28 out of 25 people are going to SR the same 1 thing …
For example I only need 2 more item from naxx so ofc Im gonna look for SR runs and yes many other players probably will reserve the same items as me but I will still have more chance to get it while joining SR run then while joining MS one. Before, whenever I needed mroe items I didnt even thought about reserving TORCH because I knew most ppl will focus on that item and because of that I was 1SR ahea dof them and could focused on other ones that I needed. Now whenever I only need torch (and ring) I know that there will be players with similar mindset as me who needs more items and will focus on SRing those first. Its a win win for everonne. If someone wants speific item they will have higher chances to get it, while ppl who need more items than 2 will have more chance of getting some of other items if they SR them + they will have more chances of getting any items at all cause of ppl like me in grp who only needs items from KT. Its a win win for everyone.
Is HR a ninja? Imo no, but even if you think it is, ppl tell you it straight in group description so its ez to avoid. I cant see the problem in SR or HR system.
No it is not. Leaders will always have priority because thats what they are, leaders. They put the group together and organize a raid which you do nothing but only dps/tank or heal.
You are an employee. Pug or guild doesnt matter, there is a job oppening and you are applying for it. And doing the job you are assigned. You don’t have any other responsibility. And the boss gets more then you because otherwise why they should bother?
Ninja is entirely different. Know the facts of the game you play.
I hate SR. I’ve seen raids where everyone just SR’s the best item and then you have that one guy who wins both his SR’s plus some MS/OS rolls on items not being SR’d and then you have some other people get nothing.
SR is a good pug solution, for guilds it’s one step removed from just having it being MS>OS roll, which is just gambling. If you want to gear out your guild fairly you don’t present people with a situation where bad luck of no fault of their own and entirely disconnected from their dedication or performance could mean they would lose on upgrades a few weeks in a row, and potentially to the same player.
That’s why guilds came up with DKP, GDKP, Loot Council. All are flawed in some way, but in a guild environment they beat SR for evenly gearing a raid in 25mans.
I would say it depends on how much the guild is ambitious (tryhard) and how hard/easy content is.
In hard raids like ssc prenerf, sunwell or ulduar hardmode or even retail mythic, fair lootmaster is probably the best loot system, every bit of stat to right player (class) might make a difference with killing bosses.
When raids are easy and all cleared in one night, sr/ms/os might be superior since everyone will get gear in time and there wont be second thoughts about LC decisions.
Whenever I host raids (I have done that a lot of times, but in another expansion), I don’t reserve items for myself. Everyone performed (even as a dummy target), and should get a fair chance to have loot. But I understand your point: you care about your character, and it takes effort and luck to get full BiS.
On my main, I play in a guild which has loot council, and itemizing the raid is just MEANS TO AN END, which is progress and logs. We are competing against the environment for that matter, not against other raiders.
We run that’s my bis in our guild and it’s fair, fast and easy. Everyone decides their item prio so no1 has any complains and if 2 are tied we check raid participation and roll if participation is tied.
LC guilds are pure absolute scam. Everyone with 100+ iq who still play this game perfectly undestand that and avoid guilds like plague
HR is a scam but atleast it’s a honest scam.
GDKP despite having p2w advantage is only fair loot system.
Forced personal loot could save classic wotlk but loot council cliques are crying too much and devs are too dumb to listen to them.
Wanna try it in practice? Just run a raid and have everyone roll need. Rinse and repeat. That’s personal loot in a nutshell. The game just hides the rolls. It starts with rolls on who gets a loot first and then rolls item from that class own pool.
It wouldn’t work in WotLK though. The gear is still more than just it’s level.