Personal Pros and Cons of Shadows Rising. SPOILERS

Lore Story
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Hi,

SPOILERS

Just wanted to present a list of bits that i found positive and negative regarding the book.

The whole novel revolves around a pact made by those Zandalari that hate Talanji for her bond with Bwonsamdi, and the Dark Rangers with Nathanos and Sira, that want to kill the loa. And how the Alliance and Horde discover all this while hunting down Sylvanas.

On to my list:

Pros

  • Alliance tensions surfacing: The author presents a nice twist regarding how the Alliance frictions may arise in the future.
    Turalyon and Alleria are shown particularly warlike and “shady” in their methods regarding how they try to hunt Sylvanas down. Curiously enough, these methods clash with JAINA of all people (who seems more invested in the current armistice), and have the tacit support of ANDUIN.

  • Anduin: he is portrayed as increasingly eroded, and even broken by the recent events. He endorses radical measures, and desperate attempts that clash with his previous characterisation. He is taunted to the point he calls forth the Void (or some dark energy that isn’t clear yet). This worries several characters.

  • Night elves they are portrayed in one of the most menacing representations of their leaders to date. Tyrande makes Thrall and the Horde representatives flee. She makes them fear for their lives, and downright states that nothing short of the razing of Orgrimmar and several Horde populations will placate her.

  • Character development: Several characters gain importance throughout the novel.
    Zekhan plays the role as lens through which we get peeks at the relation between Bwonsamdi and Talanji, and we have teases regarding the upcoming expansion and the Maw.
    Rokhan also has a nice portrayal, and surprisingly enough, Flynn and Shaw have quite the story (and additional background regarding both).

  • Bwonsamdi: One of the best developments of the novel. Thanks to his character, we get to know more about the relation between Loas and trolls, and we are shown more about a shady figure that still has the trolls interests at heart. This is some major spoiler, but he is now crowded the new “Loa of Kings”. His actions throughout the book regarding Zandalar, Talanji and Zekhan, make him worthy of this title.

Cons

  • Shallowness regarding the “Bad guys”: Nathanos, does have some development, to the point we have even hints regarding how he regrets stuff he did (the rest of him reminded of Nazgrim with Garrosh). But Sira remains a one-dimensional killing machine, and a hollow robot whose death apparenly only fuelled some desire to end all life. And Sylvanas cameo is but Maleficent incarnate.

  • Talanji: While we have the author going to great lengths to present the Nigh elves as this fearsome and independent force, the Zandalari get the opposite treatment.
    Talanji is introduced in a way that has her being ineffectual regarding her rule, and regarding how she is to deal with the problems that arise with the Zandalari.
    Long story short, she is hammered with the message that the Zandalari need the Horde in order to be saved from their problems.
    And Talanji, who started being quite vindictive regarding her grievances, realises that she is to let go of her vengeance and build a more stable future with the Horde by accepting the armistice with Jaina.

  • The new bad guy: Apari. She was apparently Yazma’s daughter, and is completely irrelevant to the story except for one reason: She is Talanji’s “mirror” regarding what would happen if she didn’t let go of her grudge (Apari hates Talanji for abandoning her while fatally wounded in the siege, and hates Jaina for invading the city).

  • Horde council: It screams weakness all over it. They are shown constantly behaving with deference towards the Alliance. They are the ones that are more fretful about breaching the armistice, and at some points, are shown as pushovers for Anduins demands (who presents them with several ultimatums such as invading Zandalar).
    In all, the author seemed to lean on making the Horde “weak” (to make a comparison, they are shown as Anduin was during his peacemonger phase) in order to highlight the darker shades of the Alliance that poke at readers several times throughout the novel.

In all, the novel does have its lights and shades, and Roux didn’t lie when she said she wanted to explore different angles.
There are some key events that i feel like highlighting at random because i think were interesting plot points for the novel:

  • -Shaw is captured by the Zandalari when he lands on the island looking for clues, and Anduin demands Thrall to hand him over or he will invade the island. From that moment on, it was a race against the clock.

  • -Flynn and Shaw both come from a family of thieves. The latter joined Stormwind’s army because of it.

  • -Shandris is painted as the “reasonable” Night elf. Even standing against Tyrande when she blames the entire Horde for Sylvanas (the argument she makes is that Tyrande wouldn’t want to be called out on crimes other members of the Alliance did)

  • -Talanji and Bwonsamdi come close to severing their bond, as part of a “deal” that Talanji makes with Bwonsamdi: She saves him, but he will leave her and her kingdom be. In the end, she realises that said bond makes her and her people stronger, and decides to keep it.

  • -Rastakhan (as a spirit) makes a cameo and hints that the Other Side seems to be having some strange troubles going on. Yes, he was specifically saved from the Maw by Bwonsamdi.

  • At the end of the book, Talanji pledges the Zandalari to the Horde as one amongst equals in the Horde council.

Anyway, do tell me if you’d like some information regarding these, or any other bits.

Overall, i’d give the novel a solid 7/10.

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Seriously what did you expect from a council lead by Thrall and Baine? Of course we are now nothing more then pushovers for the alliance. The Horde is now truly nothing anymore. Gosh I wish Sylvanas was back.

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Well… sounds like what I was expecting, especially considering Talanji. The way they hammered home the idea that Talanji thought she didn’t need the Horde in the promotional material I felt the direction of her arc was regrettably clear. The only thing that feels really unexpected to me is the choice of which Alliance characters to “toughen up”. I guess I’ll see if it feels believable…

But concerning that… did it feel like a development? Comparing it to Golden’s writing, did the characters feel like a continuation of the same people? Or, like I would have predicted, is this a case of a new cook playing with the recipe? Would you think that Roux was presenting Blizzard’s new vision for the characters here, or do you think she presented her own spin that might be ignored in the future?

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Seems to me that the Horde really lost on all accounts…Wish we got some beter leader figures, wether a council or not, current rabble doesn’t have my interrest at all, or my vote of confidence.

Shame that Blizzard writers only lean towards a black vs white type of writing, either you’re completely meek or you’re completely overbearing it seems.
Nice for the Night Elves that they atleast have a leader that is respectable, I guess they deserve that much after some of the awfull stuff like ‘A little patience’.

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Sorry, Orgrimm, Garrosh, Sylvanas, we`ve ruined everything. Now Horde is leaded by Alliance puppets (((

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Ah, your post actually reminds me of a possible positive spin it could take, doubt it would happen, but at this point.
Anyway, it involves the Alliance as not so benign overlords that must be overthrown, and the killing of certain Alliance kept puppet leaders in the council, and it ends in another revolution, but this one for freedom from the shackles of oppresors…and here I thought I lost my ability for optimism :wink:

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This has to be a joke!

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Depends on the case.

There were some that truly had a notable transition, but the author tried to have an explanation behind it.

Anduin was less idealistic, but the novel emphasised how the war has taken its toll with him.
Jaina is less warlike, but we have several references to the cinematic she had with Thrall and how she is now much more moderate (she had already flipped in BfA).
Tyrande and Malfurion are MUCH more aggressive, but we have a constant reminder regarding both Tyrande’s new state, and the Night elf situation.

For the bad guys, with Nathanos she remains on the same line about the “loyal soldier that hints remorse”, and with Sylvanas she still has her be this chaotic force (although she spares readers from having some dive into some tragic emotional tantrum as Golden often did with her).

In all, Roux did seem to stir clear of Goden’s “favourites”, and we don’t have much of her take on Baine or Calia for example. Jaina and Anduin are notably changed, but as i said, she does try to explain the reasons behind it.

And she did add a few takes of her own. As i said, i was positively surprised regarding how she painted Flynn, Turalyon, Alleria, and Rokhan.
She also gave Zekhan quite the role.

How much of it will carry on to SL is yet uncertain.
Roux seemed to play safe with most of her plot, and often “mended” the things she “broke” along the way in the novel (i.e. Having Talanji close to leaving the Horde, but them having her return to the Council as another member).

Sadly, its not.

The whole message to be had regarding her stance, was about NOT wanting to end like Apari: consumed by hatred and vengeance.

There are bits that show certain individuality, and some positive traits.
Rokhan shines a bit here.

But overall, yeah, the Horde leadership is shown as discarding the more warlike or decisive stance.
Those that don’t conform to it, end up overruled or overshadowed by those that want to keep the peace.

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I was told by the other person who read the book, that Talanji still holds a grudge against Jaina and said that she will meet her justice in time.

How did you skip that?

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Of course.
I mean, acceptance regarding the armistice doesn’t mean that all those feelings simply went away.

But the fact is, the novel highlights a very specific transition.

From this:

"“The Horde could not stop the attack on Zandalar, a failure I took in stride, believing that when we had recovered, we could take the fight to the Alliance, to the Proudmoores,” Talanji continued, her voice shaking with emotion. “Peace with the Alliance means peace with the Proudmoores, with Jaina. I was foolish to believe my people would have their revenge.”

To this:

Talanji flinched. Of course Apari would hate her too. Jaina Proudmoore had been the face of the assault on Dazar’alor, the Alliance leader that had sacked the palace and murdered the king.
“Vengeance will only take you so far” Talanji told her gently, wiping the matted hair from her face. “You need more than that to survive. I did not help you then, my friend, but i will help you now”.

Or, from this:

The Horde is working with the witch that killed my father. The Horde is content to ignore the crimes of Jaina Proudmoore, but I never will be.

To this:

“The wounds left behind by Jaina’s assault on the city still throbbed, and one day Talanji knew the Proudmoore witch would have to answer for her crimes. But patience would win that war, she thought, and any wars that came before that would be fought in the company of her new allies.

Overall, Talanji went from proactively seeking action, and shunning the Horde for not prosecuting such, to remove much of said drive, and go down the same moderate route as those same Horde leaders she started despising for having such mentality.

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So she’s not letting go of that grudge. Just having it come in time instead out of the blue at a point where the horde barley can afford yet another world spanning war. It takes time to build up resources. Being patient until we can meet the alliance at equal hight is what matters more then rash actions. I say Talanji finally makes the most smart choice here. Wait until the time for a new fight is better.

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Well, the way she added the “and the wars that came before that would be fought in the company of her allies”, seemed to imply that she was now considering her relation with the Horde as something more valuable to preserve than having her retribution against Jaina.

It’s indeed quite the positive message, but it clashed badly for me in a novel that had Tyrande going like:

“When you have washed the bodies of a thousand kaldorei burned and broken, when you have fallen to your knees and kissed the feet of a thousand mourning souls, when you look into their eyes and tell them ‘our Horde has changed’ and they believe you, only then will I accept your apology and treat you as my equal.” Tyrande’s voice, edged as steel, pulled the air out of the clearing. “My brethren here may be willing to entertain your empty pledges of justice and aid, but I know better. I have learned better.”

Or

“Quickly,” Yukha muttered, trying to gather them. “We must go. This was a mistake; I should not have brought you here.” Baine and Calia allowed Yukha to corral them back toward the path of glittering solid water. Thrall remained, only taking slow, careful steps, never showing Tyrande his back. For his trouble, Tyrande directed her final words to him and only him. “You will find that justice less sweet than the sorry excuse for punishment you faced, and when this justice comes, there will be no armistice to save you.”

It may herald some ill fate, but the impact it had on me as a reader made me cheer for how “awesome and badass” Night elves felt, while the Zandalari bit disappointed.
Not saying the Talanji bits are 100% horrible, but in all, I’d say that disappointing is indeed some accurate way of describing them from my point of view.

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I agree with you, but your initial description meant that she is totally cool with Jaina. And the quotes shows that she isn’t but she will be more cautious.

Which is fine with me, revenge is best served cold.

But what about Zekhan? did you grow to like him just a little bit?

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That’s just the usual alliance bias and I’ve grown to ignore it. Until Tyrande attacks us again we will be ready for her.

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Things are getting interesting…*laugh with a smirk

Smart girl, she vow to do better than her father which shouldn’t be too difficult yet hell is paved with good intentions.

Gooood , gooood ! Go on queen kaldorei, your kingdom is no more and will remain so.

Tap into the dark side, unleash your fury if you have still anything, we’re gonna milk you for all you’re worth.

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That’s not what I said, though.
I said that in the end she was fine with the Horde, and their posture regarding the armistice with Jaina (and the Alliance), which is true.

She might hold on to some notion about hoping that someday Jaina might be punished for her transgressions (the monologue makes it seem as if she expects karma to come into play), but that doesn’t erase the fact that she went from wanting action or acknowledgement regarding her issues with Kul Tiras, to renounce largely her desire for vengeance because of some lesson.

He did have his good moments. Overall, he remained with his portrayal as an inexperienced kid, but surprisingly enough he had a few moments where he shined.
He wasn’t shown as the stereotypical “naturally talented”, and was given also a few times when he failed.

He had an interesting dynamic with Bwonsamdi (and was even shown a vision of Saurfangs spirit enjoying his afterlife with his son Dranosh), even befriending him, and becomes instrumental for the Loa to convince Talanji that she should strengthen her bond with the Horde.

Overall, he seemed as some student that Rokhan takes under his wing, and steadily gains certain footing beyond being some token mouthpiece for moralistic speeches.

He has a long road ahead, but Roux did manage to give him quite some positive development and eased him better as some potentially interesting character.

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I’m surprised here. So sure he would end up in the Maw.

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I am surprised too, Surfang didn’t have a deity that would protect him from broken machine, like trolls had. Neither he made any bargain with Bwonsamdi himself.

So either some other force pulled him out - maybe something tied with Oshu’gun? That place was pulling orc spirits to it’s place? I know it’s a huge stretch because Oshu’gun is on another broken planet.

Or it was some other completely different being.

O… The other explanation would be that it was just a vision, but not really truthful just to calm youngster down.

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The book does say that Bwonsamdi has been trying to spare every soul he can from the Maw.

That I remember, he has saved Saurfang and Rastakhan from it. He also has a dialogue where he says he’s been working nonstop to save as many troll souls as he could.

He also saves Zekhans soul when he almost dies fighting the troll rebels that want to kill Talanji.
Poor kid even caught a glimpse of the Maw and suffers from some faith crisis that had him crying about what did he do to deserve said destiny. Only then Bwonsamdi explains the problem he has noted about EVERYONE being sucked into it regardless of their deeds.

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Wan’t Oshu’gun about that fallen Naaru that was pulling in the ancestral spirits?
It’s been a long time since I last did those quests. Wasn’t it a bad thing?

So, since I don’t know the full deal, I thibk it is indeed just a vision to ease Zekhan and gain his trust or perhaps an oversight?