Got this feeling too.
Although i’m not sure if it’s because Roux simply played more “safe” and decided to go for less controversial stuff, or because of her actual writing skills. It feels dishonest to compare a book that tackles major stuff (The Shattering, Tides of War,…), with Shadows Rising which leaned on more superfluous things.
That said, this might sound as heresy and i can’t believe i’m saying it, but she managed to make Anduin look interesting. That’s quite the feat.
My personal impressions after reading the book: it’s not bad, but could have been better.
Admittedly, my expectations were very high after reading the excerpts and interviews with the author, and the full story lived up to those expectations only in part.
Positives:
Bwonsamdi.
He is awesome all throughout the story. Madeline really did a great job capturing his personality and humour. She said in one of the interviews that he was her favourite character to write and it shows. He is really well done.
Flynn/Shaw
This was a surprise to me. I didn’t ship them before, and the Thalyssra/Lorthemar romance story left me mostly unimpressed so I expected nothing much in this regard.
But I think it was well done, it felt really natural and not forced or contrived at all. I liked it alot, especially Shaw’s portrayal. Even made me like him as a character.
Nathanos
Liked his portrayal as well. I think the author managed to make him more sympathetic to the reader and show that he is not just a callous monster, without excusing his actions or distorting his character.
The part where Bwonsamdi confronts him with the ghosts of his past when he appears as Stephon was one of my favourite scenes.
Zekhan
It was nice to see the events through his eyes, the genuine view of a promising character who has yet to find his place in the horde. He wants to do the right thing, but is still insecure and makes mistakes, not a flawless superhero from the get-go.
Don’t really like that he’s Thrall’s page now though, makes it look as if he just went from one substitute orc daddy to the next. I would have liked it better if he built more of a connection to his own people, the Darkspear.
Tyrande
She is unforgiving towards the horde ( as she should be ) but not “consumed by vengeance” to the point of no return, which we see when she shows mercy towards Sira in the end.
Negatives:
The whole Zandalari/horde relations and how it was handled.
That was the part I was looking forward to the most. I was hoping to learn more about the state of Zandalar after the war, but all I got to see was a helpless Talanji who is unable to handle the trouble in her kingdom without the help of the horde. Really disappointing.
And I agree with the assertion that Apari was only introduced to hammer home the message that desire for vengeance is bad and fatal.
The silver lining for me here was the fact that she strengthened her bond with Bwonsamdi in the course of events, and that she still wants Jaina to pay for her crimes. But I really doubt we’ll ever see that.
Sira
Probably the most flat and uninteresting character in the whole book. Looks like she’s only there to make Nathanos look good in comparision. I had hoped for some interesting dialogue between the two but her only drive seems to be kill, kill, kill. Boring.
Alliance story
The author’s attempt to make the alliance appear more morally grey through Turalyon and Alleria’s actions is laudable, but not very convincing in my opinion when she paints it at the same time as inevitable means to an end ( stop Sylvanas ) and also makes the perpetrators feel really bad about it, and Jaina ( and Anduin later as well ) disagree with it.
It remains to be seen if any of this implied internal tension makes it into the game, which could yet be interesting.
The horde council
While the beginning was promising, with many different voices naturally leading to controversy, in the end we don’t see much of this anymore. Thrall seems to be the one who’s calling the shots now. Better than Baine, I guess. But personally I would have loved to see more of Rokhan.
It’s really worse than having a Warchief. Or a High King, for that matter. They didn’t go for an alliance, where all the peoples are independent outside of a few topics that need to be solved federally. They didn’t even really go for representatives of their peoples hashing out compromises, where everyone tries to get the most for the people they represent. They went for a united Horde leadership that just happens to come from a dozen different peoples. Thrall doesn’t represent the orc position, Thrall represents Thrall’s position and happens to be an orc. Baine isn’t there to make Thunder Bluff flourish, but to make the Horde flourish. That kinda sucks. Well… welcome to Alliance problems, now that you are oh so united, I guess… From now on everything the Horde does probably can be assumed to be something all the leaders agreed to.
And all because the idea of fracturing, when the peoples are too different to reasonably agree on policy, can’t even be discussed.
Just finished the book and loved it. I disagree with some of your points regarding the Horde, I do not think they were portrayed as weak, much on the contrary. The contrast made between the Zandalari’s fragile state and how they needed the Horde made them seem really strong.
As for the demands made by the Alliance, I mean, the Horde supported most of Sylvanas’ actions throughout BFA, so they are the ones who should be feeling more obligated towards the Armistice.
I also loved the portrayal of Thalyssra in the book!
Regarding Sira, I agree… way too “hurr durr i’m angry and ugly”. I liked her in the beginning but ended up annoying me.
Also loved Alleria and Turalyon’s relationship, adorable! And I look forward to see how their shady methods will continue…
Regarding Anduin, you could literally feel his tiredness, stress and overwhelming weight of hard decisions and constant stresses. It is interesting to see him accidentally channeling the Void, but it opens many doors, gotta admit. Either way, I love his sensitivity such as when he met those three recruits.
Finished it yesterday and enjoyed it a lot. Favourite characters in it have to be Flynn, Anduin, and Bwonsamdi. The things it is setting up for the future have me very intrigued - and I love that the author doesn’t write any of them as villains so to speak, but characters with their own agendas and reasons for what they are doing. (I’m aware Nathanos etc are villains, it was just nice to get into his head for a bit!) And I really loved the Horde coming to the defence of Zandalar at the end, that really brought into the play the strength of the Horde as a ragtag group of very different races that have each other’s backs. Contrary to what people have said, I saw the Horde largely coming to accept the idea of a council, it’s just that they’re very new to the idea and spend the novel realising just how difficult it is to make everyone happy. To me, wanting peace is not a weakness when it’s in the interests of your innocent people. But I do doubt that the council will last; in times of war, there’s little time for arguing and dilly-dallying. And war will come.
And I always love seeing the darker aspects of the Alliance explored. I hope that Madeleine is able to write some more stuff, she clearly has a passion for the game and its characters.
They were consciously shown weak in order to paint the Alliance more dark. They were the ones more fretful about the armistice, the ones that subordinated their needs/issues to the Alliance wishes.
This is shown time and time again throughout the novel.
Stuff like this:
“If we act rashly then we endanger the armistice,” the nightborne arcanist, Thalyssra, interjected
“We must be thoughtful if we are to commit our navy to your struggles. Perhaps diplomacy is the answer here, and a delegation could be dispatched to Kul Tiras to—”
Thrall continued, growing a little angry. His cheeks burned with the indignity of their reception. In different days, younger days, he would not have abided the insult.
Point at an active effort to rein and defang Horde segments in order to make them take the hits in a way that painfully remind of “Legitimate Target Taurajo” Baine.
The Alliance on the other hand is shown willing to stamp their foot, to breach armistice clauses, and even to start the war again, in order to further their own interests regarding killing Sylvanas.
An armistice requires of mutual compromise. The novel is extremely one sided in terms of who tries to respect it most.
It hurts to see the horde this weak. Hopefully they are not utterly defanged against the alliance would be a shame.
The problem is whatever messed up things they do now they will always use Teldrassil as an excuse. Blizzard left the Horde at a point of no return.
Let them start another war, get angry, kick some puppies if it makes them feel better about themselves, then maybe we get to hunt a few of their leaders too. Talanji is waiting for an excuse to go for it.
Talanji, unlike Night Elves faced much more dire situation in Novel. Where Night Elves lost their home and going rogue on everyone, they are hellbent for Vengeance, within the safety of Nordrassil and its forces.
And sure, Talanji starts off very similarly - blaming their supposed allies for inaction and ignoring her plea, she marches off back to Zandalar, with intent to leave the Horde to their devices.
But know that, Zandalar fought the war, spent and in chaos, new council cannot really come up with solutions to new threat backed up by Sylvanas forces.
Talanji’s story here was to understand that pride and vengeance alone wont guarantee her rule and safety of her people. That the hatred to Jaina Proudmoore will not go away, but to push Horde away because of that and put her throne at risk was no smart.
She holds interest of her kingdom first and I would doubt, by all means, she will be happy seeing Thrall and Jaina conversing. Even having sympathy to Thrall I do think she will shift that mentality you mentioned to more pro Horde side.
Because there is no way in hell she will even be ok with Jaina…
I liked the transition Talanji went through, she accepted Horde’s help, yet she still is very much Zandalar and wants Jaina’s head. Unlike Tyrande who goes down on very dangerous path.
I think the difference is that Talanji only focuses on Jaina alone. Tyrande has beef with the entire horde. Talanji does not blame the whole alliance to an extent.
There were ways to reconcile having a vindictive attitude without having some sharp turn.
And there were ways to bond the Zandalari and the Horde further, without making either dependant on the other.
In all, whereas Tyrande was given some sort of absolute justification to talk down on Horde guys like Thrall, Talanji was often painted irrational until she toned it down to some (in my opinion) illogically low level.
Guess we’ll have the same happen to Tyrande in SL, but still…it was not nice to read. It’s as if Blizzard’s writers are unable to paint just/fair “warmongering” without either demonising it, or downright forcing those characters to quit sporting it.
I would like to hear if you have better theory to that.
Disagree with you on this.
They are allies, and as in every alliance there is a point of interest thus dependency to continue the alliance. Talanji needed Horde forces, but I cannot see her being hands tied when it comes to her personal vendetta with Proudmoores, on the other hand I really question Horde taking such an aggressive member in.
Talanji’s situation reminded me of Daenerys situation in Meereen.
Justification? Come on now. If you talk about justification, Talanji has no less bone to pick with whole bunch. But we are not talking about if its just or not to be edgy, its about smort moves and I saw Talanji making one.
Whereas in last paragraph when Tyrande meets Sira, she has no remorse. Even Maiev, once crazed on her vengeance, has to talk her down to show sympathy to Sira. That sh*t is ominous and hope we deal with that issue in Ardenwilde…
Edit: I read the quotes you posted regarding Night Elves and if you mean that then yeah, it made me feel pretty hyped for Night Elves and I know what you mean …
I’m sorry?
The Horde is afraid of the Alliance, why?
Could the Alliance even take Orgrimmar, take on Sylvanas and her loyalists, on their own? Didn’t they need the other half of the Horde in order to compete with Sylvanas?
Ugh, this storytelling.
And when the novel speaks of the ‘council’ is it then only Baine and Thrall who interracts with the Alliance? Don’t we see some of that resentment from Lor’themar that was shown in the Nightborne unlock quest, get fired back? That would be fun.
We need more of that Attitude of Lor’themar. Anyone who calls out the alliance on their BS is a friend of mine. It was good while it lasted even if it was only for a single patch.
Nope. As far as I remember, there is none.
The only relevant bits have him highlighting the fact that they should abide to the terms of the armistice, and restrict themselves to negotiate with Kul Tiras regarding Rastakhans death.
We also have one call back to his poetry hobby, thanks to some spy Shaw has planted in Silvermoon.
But in all, there is close to zero proactiveness from any Horde leader except Talanji (who ends up acknowledging how “wrong” she was for acting in such way).
It clashes notably with the Alliance stance, who is shown deploying spies in every Horde faction, setting terms regarding their interests for hunting down Sylvanas, sending soldiers into Zandalari lands, or advocating for strong measures against the Horde (and the Zandalari), to the point Jaina wonders if they’d start the war again over it.
In all, yeah, it might be my personal view on the matter, but the overall sensation I had, was that the Horde council was portrayed in a rather complacent way whereas the Alliance was given the ground to go about pushing their own interests in a way that I assume tried to paint them more “dark”.
I mean, at one point, there is an Earthen Ring representative that fears taking Thrall near Nordrassil. Even while amongst members of both the Cenarion Circle and the Earthen Ring.
That is reasonably characteristic of him.
But I would also have loved to see him mouth up against Anduin and his supposed demands.
That is something I kinda feared would happen. It makes sense once Anduin is out of the picture, really, but having Anduin instigate it seems unreasonably uncharacteristic.
Now, I won’t go as far as to say that it would not make sense that the war changed him. Problem is, that throughout the war it does not seem that the war changed him at all… unless N’zoth something managed to make a mess of his mind which it did seem like a little bit, and I am not saying that Anduin is brainwashed, but he may have been slightly affected by that.
That is just silly.
It did have the impression that war and leadership broke him.
And honestly, I felt that it made his character more interesting.
But it mashed weirdly with both the timing (seemed rather sudden) and the context (he came close to bossing around a guy like Thrall).
And ended up being founded apparently. Thrall, Baine and Calia are forced to flee before Tyrande. But not before she showers them with some insults, and a few not very subtle threats.
Honestly, when reading that I kinda missed some Garrosh-like character that at least tried to bite back something.
It didn’t paint the Horde leadership quite well to go, hat in hand, and then swallow the turd before having to run away…from a land both factions had defended and that was held by two neutral organisations (and the NEs).
The way he was shown, made it unlikely.
Might be my personal impression, but he seemed to follow on the same mindset as Baine when he advocated for surrender at Rastakhans funeral.
Blizzard should have shown that throughout BFA instead of the complete opposit.
The only time it seemed that he was dealing with some stress or war breaking down his ideals, was in the cinematic where Wrathion came to visit.
It is a shame, his growth could have been shown far more throughout the expansion.
Oh, I thought they feared bringing him to the tree because they, for whatever reason, thought he would burn it down.
But this actually makes more sense.
Lor’themar is not generally a man of senseless war, which the war in BFA was. Him advocating for peace would not be unusual.
He would have no gripes going to war with the Alliance if it was well-reasoned.
That is just the gist I get of the character, considering he seems to be largely rational when it comes to his decisions. He is obviously not vengeance driven, as is confirmed in the old story “In the shadow of the sun” he does come off as incredibly rational, mostly collected with a few spats of anger here and there.
But he does look down on the Alliance, he does not trust them. So while he would argue for the sake of peace, he would still be the kind of character to snap back at the Alliance should they ever demand anything from the Horde.
Blizzard should utilise this some more, the Horde does not have to be straight up crazed warmongerers or straight up, spineless, Alliance banana-gobblers.
Thankfully that’s not true.
She realizes she has to wait her time. One of the last things she said was: “The Proudmoore witch will get her justice.”
And I’m so really glad for this. Forgetting her justified vengeance would be stupid.
I am in agreement with you on her assessment, sot of though.
Zekhan, Thrall and this Saurfang view of “we all have to be friends” even with the Produmoors. Forget they killed your father and made your friend in to a lunatic rebel. Horde good, justice for Trolls bad. I hate this going forward.
I like she has a voice on the Horde council, but I would have preferred if her ambassador would stay always there for her and she would only go for big events over there. After all she is still queen and has to rule.
Flyn and Shaw (and I never liked Shaw) were handled really good, I have to say I was surprised. Shaw seemed even to know what he was doing for once. They worked very natural in their roles and together. They were fun to read.
Night Elves and Tyrande:
They have now Nordassil back, or at least are there right now, that’s something. I liked Tyrandes portrayal for the most part.
Shandris was to soft for my liking.
It was strange to see her willing to talk with the Horde and not simply kill her in my view.
Edit:
Bwonsamdi saved only Trolls. Saurfang wasn’t saved by him. Madeline even confirmed that Saurfang is in the Maw.
Lorthemar was less pro peace than others. He defended Talanji against accusations of working with Slyvanas. He and Gazlowe also didn’t want to let Shaw go. They didn’t care and saw him as a trespasser and spy. I liked that bit.
Perhaps I will write more later one. Perhaps I won’t.
In the context where she says so, and the overall tone/circumstances, as well as the shift she has, she does seem to let go of most of her previous attitude towards the Alliance.
Compare her new self with other guys like Genn, or even Anduin in that same novel, and the change is notable enough to leave her closer to complacency than to actual vindictiveness.
She obviously does not let go of all of it, but she shifted from not even contemplating anything that would entail accepting Alliance terms, to shrugging it of as secondary to the Hordes support.