Pet Peeve: The Undying

[Lintian-argent-dawn (Lintian)]

@Death-hydraxian-waterlords

I just wish we got KOTOR 3 instead of TOR.

This in ten characters.

[Contrite-argent-dawn]

When you learn that the Matrix is a story about transitioning made by two trans women and the ‘red pill’ that allows you to see the world as it truly is represents estrogen enhancers (they were red in the 90s), seeing misogynists use it gets really funny.

Most people use it ironically these days though

[Death-hydraxian-waterlords]

@Levey-argent-dawn

I don’t think that Kreia was this deep, transcendental philosophical giant. She’s actively encouraging your worst impulses, sowing manipulative threads to have you use your allies. She’s Sith through and through all the way pretending to be grey in a black and white binary and Atton gets all my thumbs up for pointing out the obvious after her “betrayal”.

While in some ways she’s overrated, she’s a very nuanced and well-written character nonetheless. She turned to the dark side when she became curious how Revan did, yet she had no grand plans for the galaxy or the Sith order. She just hated the force and the idea how it could possibly influence her in some way, so she sought to kill it through the Exile, and through Sion/Nihilus before that until they failed her.

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

@Death-hydraxian-waterlords

While in some ways she’s overrated, she’s a very nuanced and well-written character nonetheless. She turned to the dark side when she became curious how Revan did, yet she had no grand plans for the galaxy or the Sith order. She just hated the force and the idea how it could possibly influence her in some way, so she sought to kill it through the Exile, and through Sion/Nihilus before that until they failed her.

She wanted free will in a galaxy where a higher power guides everyone’s actions. She wanted to have true agency and the Exile’s existence proved to her that such a life is possible after seeing how Sion and Nihilus failed.

She thought that that being overtly altruistic like the Jedi and overtly nihilistic like the Sith were the real causes of chaos and strife in the galaxy. Is it truly a good deed if it directly leads to bad being caused later (the salvage parts vendor in Khoonda)? Can acts perceived as evil in the moment be used to cause greater good and growth going forward?

The point with the Refugee Sector arc and the plan she wants to go through with involves you doing things that are viewed in the moment as morally reprehensible and keep pushing the refugees towards desperation so that they’d rise up and take their own liberty for themselves – taking their agency into their own hands. Instead of having some Jedi come and save them time and time again, never growing and never learning. Teach a man to fish…

In the end Kreia even admits that even though she wanted a galaxy without the Force and where people have their own free will and agency, she’s just an old woman too reliant on it at this point. It’s too late for her to change so she needs to die to advance the cause she lead. She makes peace with her own hypocrisy and accepts her end, knowing the world is in better hands with you in it.

[Death-hydraxian-waterlords]

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

The point with the Refugee Sector arc and the plan she wants to go through with involves you doing things that are viewed in the moment as morally reprehensible and keep pushing the refugees towards desperation so that they’d rise up and take their own liberty for themselves – taking their agency into their own hands. Instead of having some Jedi come and save them time and time again, never growing and never learning. Teach a man to fish…

Exactly. If there is one word that describes her, “pragmatic” probably is most fitting. That moment on Nar Shaddaa where you’re compelled to give money to a beggar is where most people get tricked when playing for the first time. It feels like the right thing to do, yet that decision just leads to more suffering.

She advocates neither good or evil; she just wants you to do anything that is to your own advantage and hates senselessness in the perception of being too kind or overtly cruel. That’s the aspect of her character that makes her so memorable.

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

@Death-hydraxian-waterlords

She advocates neither good or evil; she just wants you to do anything that is to your own advantage and hates senselessness in the perception of being too kind or overtly cruel. That’s the aspect of her character that makes her so memorable.

Think about the consequences before you act so you can reach the outcome that benefits your goals the most. She really lets you know when you’re being shortsighted.

Also the part where she hates the Jedi and Sith for their ignorance fueled by arrogance isn’t a view she alone holds. Even G0T0 reflects that with his speech about how the normal people don’t care about the ideological schism between the two. To them they all look the same, wield the Force, and cause devastating wars for everyone – that’s why they call it the Jedi Civil War, even though it was Sith vs Jedi in kotor 1.

People don’t care. They just want some peace and for the galaxy to catch its breath. All the Force does in their perspective is breed extremism and hatred, and they’re the ones who have to deal with the consequences.

[Levey-argent-dawn (Levey)]

@Death-hydraxian-waterlords

While in some ways she’s overrated, she’s a very nuanced and well-written character nonetheless.

That’s not untrue. She’s just fundamentally metaphysically incorrect and her tragedy lies in trying to rationalise something grander out of something very basic and bringing ruin with it whilst seeming deep which in turn led people down a rabbit hole of false narratives and philosophy without understanding its faults. Kind of like the people idolising Tyler Durden in fight club or the Joker.

The issue isn’t the writing but the interpretations making Kreia something grander than she really was; a Sith doing Sith things perpetuating the self destruction of the dark side.

[Croecell-argent-dawn (Croecell)]

My brain.

Me; “I want to level X”

Brain; “void elf mage first”

Me; “but I want to level X”

so neither get done.

[Death-hydraxian-waterlords]

This again just makes me weep for what KOTOR 3 could have been. KOTOR 2 really expanded on the nature of the Force and how it’s this universal power that affects and binds everything, yet its nature also creates discord and chaos through the Jedi and Sith.

The stage was set for a huge culmination with Vitiate and the true Sith Empire that made the Sith we came to know in KOTOR 1 and 2 look like amateurs, yet they blew it all away for a rather underwhelming MMO experience.

@Levey-argent-dawn

The issue isn’t the writing but the interpretations making Kreia something grander than she really was; a Sith doing Sith things perpetuating the self destruction of the dark side.

Is Kreia really a Sith though? I understand she can be interpreted that way because she’s innately manipulative, but she abhorred the Sith and the Jedi too when she became disillusioned with them. The only reason she became Darth Traya is because she sought to use her title as a means to an end, the end being the destruction of the Force through wounds in the Force. “Darth Traya” is also something she never identified as. It was a mere role which is why she passed it on to Atris. Sion and Nihilus failed in the role she had intended for them and were destined to repeat the endless cycle of Sith Lords quarreling for power, yet she was in love with the idea of the Exile being able to cut herself off from that which every Jedi and Sith have come to depend on.

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

@Contrite-argent-dawn

Most people use it ironically these days though

Do people really use it unironically?

also muscular post

[Elenthas-argent-dawn (Elenthas)]

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

Do people really use it unironically?

Unfortunately.

[Levey-argent-dawn (Levey)]

@Death-hydraxian-waterlords

Is Kreia really a Sith though?

She advocates what sith are and do, following a Master Morality model of the universe to use others for power.

@Death-hydraxian-waterlords

but she abhorred the Sith and the Jedi too

Hence the tragedy of her ultimately just serving dark side ends in her actions. Both sides are too extreme so she advocates the principles of one over the other to her own ends like a useful tool.

@Death-hydraxian-waterlords

she sought to use her title as a means to an end, the end being the destruction of the Force through wounds in the Force.

Falsely attributing a malevolent parasitic agency to something fundamental. She’s just wrong.

[Contrite-argent-dawn]

There are enough people who do that people who use it unironically can make a living.

subscribe to my patreon for more fights against the SJW hordes lmao

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

I’m gonna make a patreon to support my lore posts tier 3 subscribers can also get pics of this cute e-boy xx

Also I just remembered I promised to write a short story for someone 5 years ago, oops

[Moody-argent-dawn (Moody)]

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

@Contrite-argent-dawn

Most people use it ironically these days though

Do people really use it unironically?

also muscular post

the idea of “ironically” using lingo is dumb. either you use it or you don’t

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

@Moody-argent-dawn

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

@Contrite-argent-dawn

Most people use it ironically these days though

Do people really use it unironically?

also muscular post

the idea of “ironically” using lingo is dumb. either you use it or you don’t

I literally don’t know what to say

[Distantpeak-argent-dawn (Distantpeak)]

There are too many humans worshipping loa for my taste. And do you know what I’ve noticed? They’re all female! I think it’s a crude attempt to be exotic in most cases.

[Syanidi-argent-dawn (Syanidi)]

Imagine humans worshipping An’she.

[Distantpeak-argent-dawn (Distantpeak)]

They already have their own dirty faith. Stick to that, or join a cult.

[Talthanor-argent-dawn]

Why have faith when there is pragmatism?