Pet peeves: The return (Part 1)

Nathanos giving that potion meant that the mission was very risky. Why send them then? I’m sure that there are many other competent people for such a mission in the Horde. If they died, then it would have been catastrophic. It feels like an unnecessary risk. And why does Blizzard write the leaders to be the powerful ones? If they’re very powerful and always have to fight, then they shouldn’t be leaders.

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If they didn’t make the risk, the Alliance likely enlists the Kul Tiran military, the Zandalari empire stays neutral or loses its edge even if the Horde can get them on-side due to losing a high priestess (and the leader’s daughter) as well as the prophet who is shown to be able to accurately predict the future to exact degrees.

In a mission like that where failure isn’t an option, you send the very best.

that’s generally how fantasy works; most of the time, the people in charge are the most powerful in a literal as well as a political sense as all of the leaders being statespeople who never leave their capital would be instantly forgettable

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The forsaken has an entire armed division dedicated to stealth and subterfuge, the Nightborne have an entire upper echelon of magisters and spellblades but both decide to send very high value individuals into Stormwind City, a mission so risky that Nathanos says he’d rather you all just commit suicide instead of being captured. Why not use some new NPCs? You are putting a lot more thought into the supposed diplomatic repercussions that the Horde would or would not want to suffer than the writers did.

And even then it’s all pointless because Sylvanas didn’t really care about the Horde to begin with.

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this is a surface-level understanding of the situation my guy

Whatever later lore was made about Sylvanas, her motivations at the time were crystal-clear, to the point that even Saurfang couldn’t argue with them; war with the Alliance is inevitable, if they wait to rebuild and try for peace then war will come when both sides have Azerite weaponry perfected which will probably wipe out all life on Azeroth, so the Horde either strikes a decisive blow that wins the war quickly or they die out.

In later lore it’s likely along the lines of 'Sylvanas needs the war to crack the veil of death open, and if she loses the war then she might not have enough people die to succeed - or something, we either don’t have the information or I haven’t got to that part yet and do not want to find out prematurely

I don’t know, guy, I’m still trying to figure out why Sylvanas thinking to herself that she was proud of being a Warchief meant for her deal with the jailer. The writing has been nothing but surface level, going deeper just means ramming your head into rocks at the bottom.

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now hold on with this scandalous idea, that would mean they’d have to come up with new NPCs!

also to the main question, it’s probably so the audience has a character to connect emotionally to

if it was just some new random joe nobody would care about them unless actually built up somehow and that’s takes effort

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They could have still successfully completed the mission without sending the leaders there. The quest would have most likely carried out the same way if they sent some other competent individuals.

That would be very kino. I don’t think it would be forgettable at all.

Imagine having a diverse roster of characters, all equally fleshed out, that could be slotted into appropriate situations more realistically and stopping player fatigue or the problems listed above.

Stares at the camera

“Could” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence - remember, they probably only got one chance at this, and they only just managed to escape before Jaina and/or Genn killed or captured everyone present with, as mentioned, probably the best two rangers and the best mage in the entire Horde (and the player who is assumed to be a champion of the faction too).

A character who sits on the sidelines and never does anything in the story might as well not be there - that’s the difference between a world that is entirely realistic and a story being told.

Not all stories need to be so high level as to involve the king himself. Even in vanilla, Thrall and the regent Bolvar were mostly just kinda there. Many stories were told without them being involved. That’s good, I like that. They were still very important, very very important. After all, someone had to fill their role.

Yeah what kind of professional writer would ever stoop so low

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They do not.

The main story probably should, though.

Oh, wow, I just checked the Engine room in ME2 for the first time this run, and why they didn’t recast someone for Ken who could do a real Scottish accent is beyond me.
I live up here now. This version is basically criminal. Even AoE2 remastered revoiced their William Wallace campaign for heaven sakes :scream:

baine, sitting alone, in the VIP room

Up until Korthia, his options were to go back to Orgrimmar (effectively ‘do nothing’), jump back into the Maw (worse than doing nothing), or wait in Oribos.

It was not made clear (at least to my recollection I could be wrong here) whether anyone other than the Maw Walker did or could leave Oribos except the One-Way Trip into the Maw.

Important characters being thrown into the front lines is just a staple of most fantasies – especially the heroic characters. After all, they are the heroes of the story. This isn’t something new to Warcraft, nor anywhere really.

Arthas, the prince of the most powerful human kingdom, was clearing orcs and investigating the plague whereas any decent mage or paladin could’ve done the deed. Aragorn (admittedly before acknowledging his place as king) fought on the walls of Helm’s Deep like a normal footman. Even Game of Thrones, known as one of the more realistic and gritty fantasies, had Stannis leading the breach at King’s Landing, Jaime and Rob leading armies against each other and later Jon did the same. It’s just not as interesting as them designating a commander to do so.

That being said, there’s definitely places they can slot in better fitting characters for the role. Warcraft has way too many diverse races and characters to be relegated to only Jaina, Thrall and Anduin all the time. Where even was Turalyon during the siege of Lordaeron?!

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Absolutely, but not in such extent as now. The Gilneas worgen starting zone involved King Genn Greymane, but he didn’t do much on his own. Instead, the king’s army and the Northgate rebels did a lot of work. I think the way Gilneas was done was very good regarding the leaders.

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I think the difference is that in WC3 these characters are backed up by literal armies of grunts and elite troops.

To clarify, seeing lore characters out and about (including faction leaders) isn’t some carnal sin in writing but as of late it feels increasingly unearned and flat, serving only to make the world feel smaller. Back in the day, seeing Thrall ride into Garadar was amazing. Today, seeing Thrall complain over the size of an axe is tiresome and honestly a little depressing.

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(it’s a meme)

but it also fits baine rly

The leaders very much can fight on the frontlines, but when backed by their armies. In Warcraft 3, Arthas didn’t do all of this alone. He had many loyal soldiers with him. The difference is that the way it is now is that these characters do this pretty much alone.