There are only 4 out of 12 classes with lust and one of them can only get it at significant cost to their damage output and the other was just added a year ago. :'D
The drums were much weaker as well.
Booooring.
Because it isn’t causing major issues? There is no rampaging swarm of priests in M+ despite its existence.
You think Summer was the cause of Exodia? Lol.
The cause of Exodia was Evoker + the way combust and ignite spread works being extremely optimal for large groups of trash with large amounts of health - especially so if there are few high HP mobs. Priests were in because of the insane amount of skips they could do.
I’m saying that all these arguments about how it’s toxic because toxic people are fighting to get it to do parses are exactly that: Argumentative toxic players. If it should be removed, find another reason.
OK. How many classes have PI? Can I get a PI “scroll” at 1/2 the effectiveness? Where can I buy that?
It IS boring… but gameplay >>> fluff. So again, you choose what is less boring for you:
Give PI to more classes (like BL), or remove it as an external buff from Priest. You tell me.
REALLY? S3 has gone like this: DPriest == meta. SP got a damage buff, now SP is meta and some other healer is meta.
Thats now.
S2? WoW… surprising so see SP there even though, damage wise, warriors could out DPS them. And by the way, when SP and HPala were nerfed by over 40% in DPS and HPS, guess who came to replace HPala and SP? DPriest… How surprising…
S1? WoW… SP AGAIN meta… how surprising…
Exodia comp is this:
Aug buffs + SP PI + blessing of summer on Fire Mage (Plus inmortal tank to do crazy massive pulls). Thats exodia.
Because buffs are multiplicative in wow, and that is why you try to stack them.
All 3 of them are… you guessed… OP buffs that only 1 class can provide. And why did they stack them on to the FMage? He happened to have the best uncapped AoE in the game.
If dunno… WM or a Warrior would have had it, then he would replace FMage. Thats IT.
And you mentioned SP and the skips they could do… ALSO a reason to call out why was it ONLY priest had the ability to do that? ONLY priest could skip some packs not even rogue shroud could.
And that was a massive problem, because it was an OP thing that only 1 spec has. The solution to that was to allow the SP skips to be done by shroud or invi pot. THAT is how you balance this stuff out.
Plenty of other reasons to remove it. Toxic idiots wont go away. They will just look for some other reason to be toxic about.
I mean given that it’s not causing issues except for people really trying to parse themselves at the expense of others - neither?
Really. In 25+ it’s ~40% priests as healers. A little high, but there are 3 other good options. Evoker is in serious trouble and shaman needs some help as well.
WHY DO YOU CARE what the meta at 30+ is? Like, seriously - I am so sick of this. Why do people care? None of you are playing at that level. None of you need to reroll beacuse of this. It doesn’t matter.
Who cares about having high DPS if you can just avoid the hard mobs in the first place…
How fun - you accidentally left out why it had to be a mage.
It had to be a mage because mages were buffed through the roof in 10.1.5 and ignite is stupid.
Oh, and massive defensives.
That was NEVER EVER going to happen.
Indeed not.
Of course there are mechanics that seem almost designed to frustrate or irritate even ordinary players, but I am so happy Blizzard finally decided to dare having support roles in the game again only to run into rampant toxicity, not from good players or even from bad players, but from people obsessed with WarcraftLogs. Again. Blizzard even tried to pre-empt this QQ. Didn’t work. Staahp.
It IS causing issues. I already said in posts above. Are you even reading them?
First month of the season it was more like 60-70%. Now its 40% because the other 60% run with SP.
We don’t. HPS and DPS wise (raw numbers) were fine. What were missing is… you guessed it: Utility. We have utility, but not the one required: Damage absorbs, simultanious healing + dps, and most importantly, an external.
We also dont provide any buff whatsoever (like fortitude).
OK. If you play at my level (which is FAR from 30+) you would understand.
If on the other hand you want to play at your level (3000 rio)… dunno… try to do it with a non meta DPS… or worse… non meta healer. And tell me how that goes.
And fully Puged.
And then tell me why what people do on +25 keys and above does not matter (never said anything about +30 meta specs). Sure, are people idiots? Yeah… but they will be for eternity. Cant change it, and of that reason, the meta maters.
You dont get the point. Its not about skips, because many (except the one in HoI) were also doable with a rogue. Its just that rogues dont have PI. Simple.
I did not forget it. But I did not mention the defensives. What do you do with those? You give it to more speks too?
See how its REALLY hard to balance utility?
Why not? Blizz could have said: Look guys, arms warrior how has Bladestorm on a 30s CD baseline and uncaped AoE. And now, Ignore Pain is party wide.
Its literally what they did with FMage. They dident. But if they did, warriors would have taken FMage place. 100% guaranteed.
The only support role is currently Aug. And it isent really one. Its technically a DPS.
And Augs are obsessed with warcraftlogs because there is no other way to measure their performance. Simple as that.
I don’t care about those “issues”. They are not issues.
No they don’t.
You should have some. Shamans were practically defined by their utility in the past. If any class should have good utility, Shamans would be one. The issue here is not PI, it’s the bad state of shaman.
Literally almost nobody does. If they focus solely on you, removing interesting interactions so that you can do a +28 instead of a +27 and no other reason, they forsake 99% of the playerbase. Nobody wants to play that game. There are gonna be metas at high levels. There always have been, there always will be. There are also metas in SC2, a game far more focused on high end players, where certain builds live and die - yet sometimes a new build comes out of nowhere without changes.
No, they weren’t. The priest skips work against mobs that detect invisibility. That was the problem.
I don’t care that it’s hard to balance utility for the 0.5% or 1% top of the playerbase. You are not that important. 30+ is even less important. Get over it.
Oh, well if Blizzard changed everything, sure. But notice how much you had to buff warriors? Besides, a major reason for the augs was that they also buff heals+tank.
Regardless of dps meters, I still think in itself the ability makes no sense to be in the priest kit. I remember the first time in vanilla I looked at it and went: ok but… why? Thematically it doesn’t fit. If PI had been ‘Boosts your target’s armor by 30% for 6s’ that’d have fit. The ability has always seemed super random to me in that sense, it doesn’t add priestly flavour, it doesn’t add very much to how I play my class, it’s just sitting there looking dumb and going: but I’m a really good buff! Yes. But still. Why? Lol.
And then I see Oracle and groan. The ability I never particularly liked center of all the attention. Yay! /s
Of course this is subjective, my opinion. But in combination with the more practical issues surrounding it, I’m a bit lost as to why I should embrace this part of my toolkit instead of wishing it away.
Shamans have a ton of utility. Tremor, cap, interrupt, speed totem, root totem… the whole bunch.
NONE matter. Thats the issue.
We dont have the utility that matters most: Externals and buffs.
And it proves my point you “dont care about” I mentioned above. To “fix” shaman you have to give it the utility MW, DPriest, and RDruid have at the moment…
Which is NOT the ideal way to balance specs. Its called Homogenization !!! Soon all healers will look the same, OR, shaman will remain for ever in a “bad spot”. Those are the options.
It happened already with MW. They spent ALL expa buffing their HPS non stop. But because they lacked the utility, they were in “a bad spot”. Give them that utility and PAFF, instant success. Now MW is more similar to HPala than what it was in S1.
Is that the future you want? Or maybe… admit the elephant in the room: Utility gives balancing issues. So tune it down for EVERYONE. Including DDs.
I play SC2. And you cant compare wow to SC2. Because I cant change my class depending on the dungeon.
Yes. There will always be a meta. 100% agree.
In S1 there also was a “meta”. In S2 there also was a “meta”.
But agree with me for 1 second that the scale of S1 and S2 “meta” were TOTALLY different. So there is a limit to your truth. NOBODY wants exodia back.
And one way to prevent exodia from coming back, is to learn and prevent the mistakes of S2, and keep the successes of S1.
And if S2 exodia, external buff stacking was the #1 reason it achieved what it did, then why are we all of a sudden accepting external buffs as OK? No they are not.
Want me to list out the packs you could exclusively do with SPriest and not with a rogue? You could do it with a rogue.
Il take you seriously if you manage to get a RShaman to 3000k rio. Not talking about the top 1%. Then try it with a MW. Compare the difference. You tell me.
I did it. And it took me 4 times less time to do it with MW monk. Dont ask me why. People are dumb? Yes. But thats the reality we live in. And it sucks.
So please, explain to those idiots why what the top 1% does not matter. In fact, ask them why after years and years of people saying “meta does not matter” people still believe in it… Like… why?
But im tired of suffering through this because of obvious mistakes from Blizzard on balancing utility. That CAN be fixed. Idiots… unfortunately cant.
And that is my exact point: WHO ELSE DOES THAT !!! Nobody thats the answer !
And because of it, Aug was OP. Because it could do something OP nobody else could. If on the other hand we had like… 5 or 10 specs that could also buff healers and tanks I would not complain.
PI is in the same exact category here.
Its category is DPS. There is no maybe or buts. When you quew for dungeons, arenas, BG, or LFR you click the box “DPS”. Not healer, not tank, not “support”.
And because its a DPS, and treated as one… even though it is not a classic DPS… it will always be a problem until a proper “support” role is added to the game. A 4rth role.
So. Until Blizz adds this new roll, and more specs that can do what Aug can. They should delete Aug. And bring him back when the game is properly built for it.
And when they make the new “support” role, we can consider not only bringing PI back, but expanding on the external buff idea and giving other classes externals too. Like mages some “crit PI” or stuff like that.
There are number of utility spells for every class that just go “I’m just a buff/debuff sitting here”.
How much have you seen warlocks who actually use curses?
From fantasy standpoint I think it’s just attempt to play on stereotypes, like “usually you would’ve expected big defensive single target spell for a holy caster, but we added big offensive instead mwahahahaa”
The interesting thing is, they were used a lot in vanilla. Combat was slower, cc mattered more, curses were useful in that setting. I’m using that as a reference because everything had just been implemented, so you’d expect everything to make sense thematically, even if it got tweaked or removed or became redundant later.
I don’t play lock and I must admit I have no idea what the state of curses is these days! But yeah curse of tongues has always been pretty strong in pvp, but it was used a lot against caster mobs in PvE at the time too. No idea how that is now, I could imagine that still being useful in higher M+…? I had no idea about that effect with raid bosses, that’s so neat!
why 30 when its a usual 10min debuff? that would mean for 1 player being locked out of lust for a whole dungeon after having it just once. Not a well thught out idea is it.
to line up with battle res mainly, you could have people die on purpose to gain benefit of pi + lust if it was 10mins rather than 30… that was my thought
But yeah curse of tongues has always been pretty strong in pvp, but it was used a lot against caster mobs in PvE at the time too. No idea how that is now, I could imagine that still being useful in higher M+…? I had no idea about that effect with raid bosses, that’s so neat!