Please add futures contracts to AH

[Anoraaz-burning-legion]

@Entopie-ragnaros

Wait until you know that stacks were 20 back then

Ouch.

@Entopie-ragnaros

unless the amount of players who want this change wouldn’t be like 20% at least, blizz won’t make it happen

Well, if you think of it - if futures will stop prices decline that will mean stuff will be more expensive to buy, that would mean people will buy more tokens, so more profits for blizz, no?

[Glowie-magtheridon]

i can get behind this as long as we get some leverage to work with, 50x sounds good to start with

[Rustylegs-nemesis]

pretty sure deposit is lost unless someone buys,

[Entopie-ragnaros]

@Anoraaz-burning-legion

Are there some useful AH addons perhaps?

TSM is by far the best but a lot of average players hate its users because people make fortune with it

[Anoraaz-burning-legion]

@Glowie-magtheridon

50x sounds good to start with

More leverage = more volatility = more fun.

@Rustylegs-nemesis

pretty sure deposit is lost unless someone buys,

Well, I’ll find that out soon enough.

@Entopie-ragnaros

TSM is by far the best

Thanks, will try.

[Rustylegs-nemesis]

@Anoraaz-burning-legion

Well, I’ll find that out soon enough.

if you keep posting items and nothing sells you lose gold. its a fact. no deposit money is in expired AH mail.

[Anoraaz-burning-legion]

@Rustylegs-nemesis

if you keep posting items and nothing sells you lose gold.

Well, that sux then. AH useless.

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

@Anoraaz-burning-legion

@Rustylegs-nemesis

if you keep posting items and nothing sells you lose gold.

Well, that sux then. AH useless.

What a binary view of things. Lots of things can be improved for sure.

Useless? No.

[Rustylegs-nemesis]

it’s useless for a casual seller who tries to sell 10 things but keeps getting undercut by bots and script users. moreso, it’s actually worse than useless since the casual seller loses gold when trying to sell his merch

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

That’s just bs.

I’m as casual as it gets when it comes to the ah and I can figure out how to sell stuff.

Drop the hyperbole.

[Anoraaz-burning-legion]

@Rustylegs-nemesis

it’s useless for a casual seller who tries to sell 10 things but keeps getting undercut by bots and script users. moreso, it’s actually worse than useless since the casual seller loses gold when trying to sell his merch

Yep, exactly.
Even bots and script users are at disadvantage, because there’s always somebody who will grind and sell cheaper, up to the level of vendor prices (and anyone who dares to put 1 copper higher price will lose gold).
This economy just isn’t healthy. It promotes infinite grinding for dirt cheap prices, turning into some cheap labor, and throws away everyone else.

@Dejarous-draenor

and I can figure out how to sell stuff.

At dirt cheap prices, yes. The only exceptions now are legendaries and useful components, but as soon as enough people level their professions / get their leggos they are guaranteed to go to near-zero.
Transmogs stay somewhat stable but selling them is lottery.

[Mellinora-argent-dawn (Mellinora)]

@Anoraaz-burning-legion

I tried to do stuff on AH and current state of it is very sad.
Prices start high at start of expansion and then go down as people keep grinding items and then selling them for whatever is sellable. Only handful of items drop slower, but they still keep dropping. And whatever small demand increases one can catch will be nullified by rapey AH fees on selling.
Selling is near to impossible too since all those grinders will keep selling lower and lower (even if you manage to buy everything cheap to push price up - the next day they’ll grind more and dump it again).
It’s boring and unprofitable that way, adding ability to short will make prices more stable and healthy and AH will become something more than ‘dump stuff quick’ button.

I understand where you are coming from, but why do you think adding futures will let you sell in peace? What would stop people who are mass-posting now from racing your futures? Ie, someone posts “will buy 100 skins for X” and you will presumably want to fulfill that contract, but what would stop whoever is undercutting you now from fulfilling it ahead of you?

[Anoraaz-burning-legion]

@Mellinora-argent-dawn

Ie, someone posts “will buy 100 skins for X” and you will presumably want to fulfill that contract, but what would stop whoever is undercutting you now from fulfilling it ahead of you?

Wdym? In maker-taker model one side places order and other ‘grabs’ it which is instant.
But the advantage will be possibility to trade both ways. Now it’s only possible to ‘buy, then sell’, and with constantly declining prices this makes no sense. ‘Sell, then buy’ will make more sense in current market, which will in turn make it adapt and prices will start moving both directions which is healthy for economy.

[Mellinora-argent-dawn (Mellinora)]

When one side places the order, it sits there waiting for someone to satisfy it. Whenever someone decides to satisfy it, things will be instant, but there’s a waiting period first. What makes you think you will be the one to satisfy the order?

What scenario do you have in mind in general? What is supposed to happen when they add futures? So, they add futures today, good, you log in, what then? I just do not understand.

[Anoraaz-burning-legion]

@Mellinora-argent-dawn

Whenever someone decides to satisfy it, things will be instant, but there’s a waiting period first. What makes you think you will be the one to satisfy the order?

It depends on UI and addon (and maybe click speed) but it’s fine if sometimes somebody will be faster. Also, with enough liquidity there will be enough orders for me and everyone else (and I’ll be able to place orders aswell, actually that’s what I prefer doing).
Ideally they would also add outside-of-game API so that we could code HFT bots to trade automatically.

@Mellinora-argent-dawn

So, they add futures today, good, you log in, what then?

‘Shorting at whatever price’ will be free gold strategy for first month (until market adapts).

[Entopie-ragnaros]

@Anoraaz-burning-legion

Ideally they would also add outside-of-game API so that we could code HFT bots to trade automatically.

And that is already against ToS.

[Anoraaz-burning-legion]

@Entopie-ragnaros

And that is already against ToS.

Well, if they made API themselves they wouldn’t ban people for using it, lol. That’s what I meant.
Another big benefit of futures would be no need to physically carry all these thousands of stacks from mailbox to AH 24/7.

[Mellinora-argent-dawn (Mellinora)]

I don’t think there will be any orders left for normal people to fill. What’s the problem now? That you post an item AND THEN BEFORE this item gets a chance to sell, a bot (well, a human, but I will refer to him as a “bot” for brevity) comes in and undercuts. By the exact same token whenever someone posts his desire to buy an item, the same bot will fulfill it faster then it will take you to find it.

I would fight mass-scans and mass-posts, not add futures. They can be fend off very easily via delays after action #X.

[Entopie-ragnaros]

HFT bot will be illegal, not their API

[Anoraaz-burning-legion]

@Mellinora-argent-dawn

By the exact same token whenever someone posts his desire to buy an item, the same bot will fulfill it faster then it will take you to find it.

This scenario is only possible with low liquidity (very few orders placed). If liquidity is decent then all these bots will just make price move a bit up/down (fluctuate in certain ranges) so nothing will change for normal people.
Also, lol, scenario like this is perfect since if ‘normal person’ wants to sell or buy he will just place his order and some bot will take it, no? I don’t see any problem.