The point is that you keep doing it. If you are honest about apologizing, then stick to it mate. Otherwise, it’s a form of trolling.
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Okay, I’ll try better next time. 
I don’t, but at least I have the decency to keep civil and not insult the person I am talking to, unlike you.
Again, the only thing I can say is I’ll try better next time but you’re speaking about decency meanwhile when people tried to insult me you didn’t have the decency to tell them anything about it but the moment I called the guy a clown you jumped on the bandwagon and called me out and I’m the one with selective reading, you’re truly honest.
No, you didn’t call “the guy”, you called me a clown. I am not someone else, I did not insult you once despite the fact you did, I am not responsible for your conversations with others, and I would appreciate it if you stop trying to play the victim card.
For context, your conversation with the other person was like this:
Other person: “So this, you’re calling someone a clown because he wants mop class design back.” (this refers to me, not to whoever you are referring to)
You: “He’s a clown and you’re not too far behind”.
This is where I “jumped the bandwagon” according to you, to the point where you repeated an insult against me personally. If this is jumping the bandwagon, then I will always defend myself and “jump the bandwagon” when someone keeps insulting me. I did not report your posts because I don’t like doing that, but I will keep telling you that you are not having this conversation in good faith, which I told you before, you denied, claimed you wanted to see arguments that people repeated 1000s of times, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and then you proceeded to continue as if it didn’t happen. I am sorry, but this tells me all that there is to tell about the intention of the posts you are making here.
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I am not Mooky.
No, you didn’t call “the guy”, you called me a clown. I am not someone else, I did not insult you once despite the fact you did, I am not responsible for your conversations with others, and I would appreciate it if you stop trying to play the victim card.
What are you referring to here? I’m confused? are you referring to your old/initial post then?
Not playing the victim card so I’d appreciate if you could stop making assumptions.
I am sorry, but this tells me all that there is to tell about the intention of the posts you are making here.
I’m really sorry that you feel like that but honestly I don’t care what you think about me at this point but if you think I’m trolling go head and report me.
I apologized to everyone and if you don’t/can’t accept it, I’m sorry but that’s all I can do.
Anyway, I’ll delete my posts from this thread as I’m not really the point here so you guys can discuss MoP “class design” and how to bring it back.
God bless, I love you
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You do not understand that we don’t want the complete mop class design back since there were alot of things which were kind of dumb (inevitable instant cc).
What most of the “bring mop class design” people want is that you actually can make a difference, or more on the point to make a difference between a good and a bad player.
With the current class design you simply can distinguish yourself from the ones below you in skill level since the abilities which made that possible were removed one by one (more like all at once, like in the case on ww monks).
Ofc there are some classes which felt better during wod (demo lock demon bolt specc) but the vast majority of the classes are not even a shadow of themselves.
Or another funny thing is, that blizzard gave every specc a cool ability (artifact) in legion. For some reason instead of making them baseline abilities they turned it into talents or simply removed them (ldemo locks).
All in all blizzard is trying to fix things that are not broken and they fail because of that. Demo was great in wod in terms of gameplay, they reworked it because of dhs needed meta (lul) and made quite a fun specc in legion which was hard to play but it payed off the work if you managed to pull it off in its full potential and now in the present the, are literally an ai specc which is nor fun neither effective to play.
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Enhancement too, felt really good in WoD to me.
Depends on in what way you would want to bring stuff back. But yeah /raises hand, I’m one of those with near zero interest in pvp.
As for bringing stuff back, I wouldn’t be against(in fact I would be all for…)…bringing the old SV spec back for the hunter class. Although, I’m also a person who tends to look at the current game and it’s design philosophies and how they shape it. I look at it/them and try to figure out how things that I liked from the past could be updated and brought into the new game that we’re currently playing.
Take old SV as an example. The last time it was in the game, it was based on a different structure from that of specs of today. You can’t just bring that old spec back as it was and expect it to work in the current game. The same goes for all past specs(that existed prior to Legion).
Back to how I tend to look at class development, I would like to bring in an updated version of the old SV spec that is designed with the same structure as other specs have been on, since Legion. And NO, NOT as a replacement for the current SV spec!
#[Suggestions updated] Pre-Legion Survival [4th spec]
My point really is, if you really liked something in the past, how can we get it to work in the current game? Is it just one ability that you want back? Is it a system?
Much like the title of this thread. I think it can be good to draw inspiration from that time(MoP), but to simply say that they should bring it back as a whole, they would have to change so much beyond just classes themselves to make it work.
And IMO, they shouldn’t either.
The more general, and frankly, the more bland approach to talent-design that we had back then, was not to my liking. Some people did like it. I did not. Especially when we have so few talents to choose from, I would want them to really focus on enhancing the playstyle that is specific to your chosen spec.
As far as PvP goes, they have separate PvP talents. They can change that system however they want if you ask me. As long as the main talents for each class/spec mainly focus on the general part of the game, which means varying forms of PvE content, raiding, M+, questing, leveling, and more.
If, when you step into a PvP-focused area or if you engage in PvP-combat, if that somehow alters an ability of yours to work differently, I would be fine with this. Why? Because it wouldn’t affect me anyway as I don’t engage in PvP.
If they were to make changes to abilities that you have baseline, and the changes would cater towards PvP specifically, I would be against that.
PvE and PvP are so different in terms of how they work, you cannot create 1 ability/effect and expect it to be perfect for both types of gameplay. For it to be perfect for both types, it would also have to work differently.
Might be a bit to strong of a word idd.
I would say that this very much depends on who you ask, and for what part of class design you ask about. We are all very different, we all have our preferences.
Some feel VERY strongly about class design and how big of a part it plays within the game as a whole.
With much passion also comes strong opinions. Nothing wrong with this. We all have them.
Again, this is subjective. Ask 10 people and you would get a lot of different answers.
People find fun within different areas. Some “live” for min-maxing. It’s what they like about the game.
Having said that, once you start designing classes based on number performance, that’s when you risk destroying those classes/specs.
Once you no longer look at the immersion, at the fantasy, and how well it fits with a specific class, or if you focus less on these parts opposed to trying to find balance in numbers, it only ends one way.
As for Animal Companion specifically, the 2-pet option is something I liked a lot in Legion, and was looking forward to in BfA where we have more freedom and choices we can make. But…sadly, the talent has many issues. It still bugs out a lot(for me at least), sometimes, that extra pet just does not spawn, even if you wait up to a minute.
The second pet also has more trouble to find paths to walk on than Hati did in Legion.
As for numbers, no, it’s not designed well. If you engage in any type of content where you even remotely have to care about performance, then this is not a good talent.
Solution? They need to make it work like Hati did in Legion, but keep the current aesthetics and design of you having 2 pets out. Hati in Legion did not affect your main pet or it’s damage. It just provided you with more damage.
This, is what Animal Companion should do as well. It shouldn’t lower your main pet’s output capability at all.
Why the second pet has so much trouble to spawn sometimes compared to that of Hati, I cannot say…
I would say that this is more of a perception problem rather than an actual problem that the game has.
You can raid mythic with any class you want and you would do fine. If you raid on a competitive level, where every little bit matters, sure, it might be different. But apart from that, all classes and specs can be brought.
Most wipes in raids etc, they don’t happen because you haven’t brought the most optimal setup. Those wipes happen because someone made a mistake. Someone f’d up.
Everyone can talk about any class they have an interest in. It’s what these forums are for. But to simply state that a class is boring or that all classes are crap, it’s not really going to help anyway.
Providing constructive feedback and elaborating on why/how and what you want. Is what’s actually helpful.
Fair enough, but if you only say that you don’t like something, but you don’t provide context as to what you would want instead as well as why. Then, how can you expect(or even hope for) it to get better with the next iteration?
We have our opinions. I would be against doing this. I especially found talent design/compilations to be bland and non-interesting back then.
I refer to my above comment, the design of classes/abilities is for most people, much more important than the actual numbers.
But again, that specific ability needs to change to the previous artifact design in terms of mechanics. But keep the visuals of 2 pets.
Did not play enha in wod because the amount of turbo clave was unbelievable. It was simply retarded an refused to play that specc
I havent had a main since mop. Every class/spec is the same now. A few short cd rotation abilities , aoe and maybe 1-3 major CDs for increased dps…
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What in the hell are you on about? What a retarded comment.
Why arrent you applying to blizzard they will hire you for sure because of your ignorance.
So what some ppl enjoy playing arenas, because it requires a way more skill and foresight than pve ever will.
I’m playing this game since day one, yet never seen PvP balance having a big impact on the game since it was always a PVE game and if anything the PvP side of the game was ruined because of pve.
Every little change they made so far was because of pve and not vice versa. In the last 3 expansions there was only a single pve change because of pvp and that was back in wod for disc priests.
But I guess you’re so clueless and narrow minded that you do not realise this. Instead of whining about PvP you should simply l2p
I thought MoP was terrible.
But at least it didn’t had GCD!
I miss 2h frost. Sure, it was inferior to DW frost in performance, but at least I had the option to play it in more casual content and I enjoyed it more. ![:frowning:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
This is the most important part
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I’m surprised this post netted so little response, while it was so clear in its explanation what exactly happened to make classes feel too lineair and without any sense of depth. Especially those who kept asking for an explanation and kept saying that ‘everything is fiiiine!” could at least have acknowledged its contents and meaning.
Thank you for a very clear post on the subject Redoctober, imo you nailed the problem.
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Mop would be a good starting point. Holy paladin was really fun to play in that Xpac.
Ret however for example, whilst other classes were beginning to get heavily pruned in WoD, actually reached its peak in terms of skill ceilings and dynamic play. Much better than MoP.
It becomes a bit of ‘picking and choosing’ of opinions I guess on what people think the ‘peak’ of a specs game play was, but certainly MoP would be a good starting point over the terrible designs we have now. Merely my opinion of course.
I would say that a good starting point for you would be to get gud with this pala you are writing on in current expac, then come back and discuss “skill ceilings and dynamic play”
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