Indeed. Most won’t admit it, but while we love the twink drama, rivalries in the gulch etc, if you lose the OPness of twinks because every single one is twink, you lose that feeling.
But this is only part of why it died. Xp off twinks is too small of a niche and queue time went from 5min to 1 hour+. Twinks just stopped queuing and it just died. That is the main reason.
Back on topic, the premade vs premade is even worse as Blizz has a whole reward system (contrary to twinks) behind the honor system in Classic. Making the ability to dodge other premades essential to rank up.
So, according to all the selfish rudes opinions stating “gO To ReTaiL” the hidden function of the button “Join Battle” only serves the purppose of making people frustrated and forcing them to push instead the “Join as Group” button, ok, thanks for all the empathic opinions, i swear i’ll try to git gud at the game and find another bunch of people with no life and rank 14 expectations to have a chance to win WS games, hope my noobish hands after 10 years of not playing the game are not much of an issue.
If anything, they should rip any form of premade out of BG’s as it goes right against the grain of the spirit of the game.
Which is that you can play and cooperate with anyone in the community driven world of Vanilla, instead of forming specialist groups who steamroll everything.
Unfortunately though… if it was in Vanilla it should be in Classic.
Too bad Classic is no match for Pirate server/Retail/min-max/gogogo trained players.
Because retail was full of premades right? … oh no wait. They were not.
the real problem here is that classic was 90% casuals back in the day. Now it is 90% hardcore players.
Thus, the experience is entirely different to what it was.
If you don’t have 10 hours per day to play, then people like you are basically saying “dont bother, game isn’t for you” … I can absolutely guarantee you that the game was NOT Like that 20 years ago. Not least, the pace of release they have and are scheduling!
I agree, there’s no point to have premade vs pug. When I tag Warsong with my team I don’t understand why we are VS a pug team, it’s just stupid and we have literally 0 fun.
Add premade queue Blizzard, and do it fast. Thanks.
any system that pushes players that actually want to participate out of the system is a bad system.
you can form your own premade. and some people may even call this a solution.
the problem is that this won’t happen.
people rather quit. leaving the a smaller PvP pool than before.
give PuGs their own BGs so everyone can enjoy PvP the way they want. everyone wins.
Depended on the server. It’s still a socially driven design, and Classic encourages branching out socially through negative reinforcement. Read the walls of text above, cba to repeat myself any further just because you can’t read more than one line of text per day.
It’ll happen. It’s just not that everyone will do it. Read the walls of text above.
Did people forget how to read today???
Except for the ways to bypass premade limitations, like in retail.
No-one has forgotten how to read, or too lazy to read more than 1 line.
It’s that they disagree with you. By you continuously stating it, does not make everyone wrong and solidify you being correct. It just means people disagree with you. More people disagree. Hence the same thing possibly gets posted again by someone else.
You’ve fallen into the trap of assuming you are correct and that no-one else can possibly be. Hence your need to try and belittle people “Can’t read more than one line of text per day”.
Truth is, the people who do not agree probably do not spend 18 hours a day on their computer, possibly like you.
I cba to repeat myself because you can’t come off Warcraft for more than 1 hour a day and understand other peoples view…
Except you didn’t read it, didn’t even address it, didn’t present any counterargument against it, and therefore such a conclusion can be drawn. It’s either that you didn’t read it or didn’t understand it.
Which do you prefer to go with?
Yeah, a nice bunch of nonsense in an attempt to obfuscate the actual topic itself.
Additionally, if 9 people think you are wrong (example) and you think you are right but correct all 9 of those people by posting your view repeatedly, it does not mean that then must be balanced. Truth is, 9 people think its garbage and 1 person (you) thinks its fine.
Then statistically, it’s broken from the sample size. You can’t post the same thing 9 times yourself and claim it’s 50/50.
Besides that, how much fun is it for a premade vs a PUG? I can imagine it is not fun at all, how can it be fun killing people that 50% of them go afk in the GY?
If it is not fun for the Premade and it’s not fun for the PuG then I ask you, is that not a terrible design for a computer game, I don’t think it’s a job to play, I don’t think I’m here just to grind and be bored (despite being in a premade or a pug), I think I’m here to have fun? surely?
Do you not agree? or is it a job to you now with the hours you have to invest?
Same as our other friend above us, not wanting separated queues one for premades and one for randoms is another way to state “i’m just playing ws to get ez wins so you’re not allowed to have your own casual queue” XD.
That’s not how an argument works. That’s how mob rules.
Also, nice attempt to obfuscate yet again.
You’re using really disgusting manipulation techniques, but you know what? None of what you actually said had any substance.
As for if it’s fun or not, it seems you really don’t understand how negative reinforcement works. Google it, it doesn’t take long.
As for social design, that’s a much larger topic and requires you looking up both social psychology and sociology to learn how to even look at it. Project horseshoe (think tank by game designers working to integrate more social elements based on findings in those fields to better the experience for more people) is a good place to start. Google them too. Read their reports. I’ll wait.
As for “it should be fun for everyone, even the ones not trying”, you’re not entitled to win a bg. You earn a win by beating the opponents.
Retail is a good option for people like you. Or other games altogether. Many weren’t designed for things to take time or to include punitive design elements.
But I did, you just failed to understand the answer.
The answer was that what you’re proposing with negative reinforcement suggesting it’s by design is actually completely made up. By you. Because, that’s not what happened in classic wow and I have seen no evidence that Blizzard designed it in such a way to make people go down the pre-made path.
You’re insinuating design ideas that do not exist. Sure, human nature might follow that path of joining a pre-made. But the game certainly wasn’t 20 years ago, nor today, designed by the developers to force such a route.
What you propose as a level playing field is only level for the hardcore, it is not level for people not in large guilds, people who can only play for an hour here and there (might be 6 hours a day, but in smaller sessions). People who are not confident in voicechat, or unable to (because they’re in their 30’s/40’s because they’re playing a game from their youth) due to them not being in their mums basement… etc etc.
There are other circumstances, outside of your own small world, which might mean you’re right from your perspective and others, a lot of people, are also right.
Not that you’d ever know, or concede. But that’s fine right? you can belittle those people because you know better. Kinda like metaphysical solipsism
If you can’t identify something for what it is, then you’re just deluding yourself.
Except you didn’t.
Except it isn’t. It doesn’t take a “hardcore” player to organize a schedule for when to play. People will then find the schedules that they can go along with.
You choose to play alone.
If your schedule is so erratic that you can’t schedule anything, then this game will have many things unavailable to you. Winning against premades as a premade being one of them.
Yet to see any non-self-serving argument coming from you. No consideration for the big picture or the social design of the game itself.
Only seen a bunch of manipulation techniques from you thus far.
“10 ways to get to a yes”
“How to win an argument” so on and so forth. Lots of self-help books provides those little tricks, and youtube channels.
The root of the problem with your perspective is that you don’t even consider the fact that a game can actually be designed to not be for everyone. That a game can actually keep content away from you because it requires commitment and engaging socially in order to accomplish it.
You just want it to be easier for you and more accessible to you without the need to do all those things, and without caring at all about the consequences. That’s what’s called ‘catering to casuals’.
You’ve got retail for that, and many other games. Retail is a game designed to make the player feel empowered with minimal effort, and requires very little time to accomplish most things.
I am correct though. Just because you dont want me to be, doesnt mean im not. Play Hello Kitty if you cant handle this game.
Stop beeing offended by everything
I am wondering aswell.
it was not hard to understand that this so called “solution” will not get used by most players.
you will have premades and players that Q alone.
you will also have many people straight giving up on PvP cause I don’t want to deal with facing premades or having to form their own.
those are the players I was talking about, if that was not obvious.
in the end, humans take the path of least resistance.
you would rather have them quit PvP I would rather have them play the way they enjoy.
not like anyone would lose something through this, but hey
Except they would, it’d impact the social design as well as open up the way for the same kind of premade limitation-exploits seen in retail.
Seems you “forgot” to read that part as well.
Most players are tourists. Even Blizzard knew from the start that tourists would come and go. I’d argue layers made it too easy and prolonged the time it takes for tourists to pack up and go.
Phase 2 did get rid of some of those tourists who stuck around 'til then, but now you’ll see the casual tourists who play for PvP to pack up and leave since premades are inevitably going to be encouraged by design.
Sure, solo players will continue to play. Just that most of them will choose not to participate in BGs after repetitive exposure to that frustration, while others will try to expand their social network to get a premade of their own because of that very same frustration.
In other words, you can have as much fun as you want by just playing the BG and killing some opponents. You’re however not entitled to win a BG, that’s a competition against the opponents. As simple as that. It’s not like you can’t face other pugs as opponents, it’s just that you won’t have as much of a chance to beat the premades when you’re in a pug that was created automatically through matchmaking. Deal with it.