Please don't make Tome of Cold Weather Flight available in P1

[Zalanji-mirage-raceway]

@Bolanira-zandalar-tribe

So you agree that we can leave flying out until the Ulduar patch.

What I mean is that the tome isn’t gonna cause any problems because there’re no groups to be formed before lvl 77 in Northrend outside of the ones for dungeons, for the most part. So no, bring it in with P1 already, I say.

[Zalanji-mirage-raceway]

@Bolanira-zandalar-tribe

“mY wRaTh DiDn’T hAvE tHiS oR tHaT.” This is a very poor argument. You’re not giving a reason why, and you pretend to be #nochanges, while you are most evidently not. It’s dishonest argumentation at best.

A counter-example is how Blizzard from the very start as any details about TBCC was announces, was that leatherworking drums would get quite the hefty nerf. But it was a very good nerf, as you couldn’t benefit from more than one LW in any group at any time.

I’ve never said I’m #nochanges, but I’m tired as hell of hearing arguments like “RDF wasn’t in the game until 3.3” when the people making these arguments are absolutely fine with a tool that wasn’t in the game until LONG after WotLK.

[Mindtap-mirage-raceway]

@Bolanira-zandalar-tribe

A counter-example is how Blizzard from the very start as any details about TBCC was announces, was that leatherworking drums would get quite the hefty nerf. But it was a very good nerf, as you couldn’t benefit from more than one LW in any group at any time.

What made it a good nerf?

[Necromon-tarren-mill]

@Kazamori-firemaw

I believe it’s better for everyone to be on equal playing field early on in the expansion, when there’s the highest number of people levelling.

What exactly are they competing for with … alts?
Should they remove heirlooms too? Cause I mean let’s be real here, those are also removing the “equal playing field”.

[Zalanji-mirage-raceway]

@Necromon-tarren-mill

Should they remove heirlooms too? Cause I mean let’s be real here, those are also removing the “equal playing field”.

Don’t give them ideas

[Vanillataur-nethergarde-keep]

the convenience in Wrath arrived halfways through - timevise It should be like that again. ALL convenience.

[Vanillataur-nethergarde-keep]

Heirlooms - I can just not use them, and they do not lessen my experoence. But much of the crap introduced 3.3.0 - 3.3.5 – and therefore coming with Wrath Classic launch – impatcs me directly. Sad but true.

[Bigbazz-tarren-mill (Bigbazz)]

Tome should not be available, it was an alt catchup system so it should be used as that this time around, release it with TOTC.

[Lucillepal-mirage-raceway]

I think that implementing this change in phase one directly goes against their own “protect social experiences” pillar. Once that first wave of people get to 80 you’ll see way less people in the open world to interact with because they’ll all be flying around. ^^

[Bolanira-zandalar-tribe]

@Zalanji-mirage-raceway

I’ve never said I’m #nochanges, but I’m tired as hell of hearing arguments like “RDF wasn’t in the game until 3.3” when the people making these arguments are absolutely fine with a tool that wasn’t in the game until LONG after WotLK.

It wasn’t in the game until later, so don’t use it as an excuse in place of arguments. You don’t believe in adhering to specific patches on release. You have to argue RDF on its own merits. “It was in Wrath” isn’t a good argument coming from someone that is not #nochanges. I’m in the #SomeChanges camp, and I don’t mind changes being made.

@Mindtap-mirage-raceway

What made it a good nerf?

I just wrote why in the text you quoted. No nerf would have pushed a lot of people into picking up leatherworking for no reason other than the drums.

@Necromon-tarren-mill

What exactly are they competing for with … alts?
Should they remove heirlooms too? Cause I mean let’s be real here, those are also removing the “equal playing field”.

Moot point, you won’t equip your alts with full heirloom sets early on in Wrath.

@Zalanji-mirage-raceway

Don’t give them ideas

I don’t mind heirlooms as such.

@Lucillepal-mirage-raceway

I think that implementing this change in phase one directly goes against their own “protect social experiences” pillar. Once that first wave of people get to 80 you’ll see way less people in the open world to interact with because they’ll all be flying around. ^^

Well put

[Zalanji-mirage-raceway]

@Bolanira-zandalar-tribe

It wasn’t in the game until later, so don’t use it as an excuse in place of arguments. You don’t believe in adhering to specific patches on release. You have to argue RDF on its own merits. “It was in Wrath” isn’t a good argument coming from someone that is not #nochanges. I’m in the #SomeChanges camp, and I don’t mind changes being made.

I do think RDF has its own merits, and I do think the best thing to do would’ve been to only hold it out of P1. But I’m tired of being met with “lolol it wasn’t in the game until ICC” as a reply to this by ppl who support a system who wasn’t in the game, like, ever.

[Bolanira-zandalar-tribe]

@Zalanji-mirage-raceway

I do think RDF has its own merits, and I do think the best thing to do would’ve been to only hold it out of P1. But I’m tired of being met with “lolol it wasn’t in the game until ICC” as a reply to this by ppl who support a system who wasn’t in the game, like, ever.

Again, me saying it wasn’t in the game until later is only an argument against people saying RFD should be in Wrath Classic at launch.

Again, I’m in the #SomeChanges

[Djansoul-chogall]

@Lucillepal-mirage-raceway

I think that implementing this change in phase one directly goes against their own “protect social experiences” pillar. Once that first wave of people get to 80 you’ll see way less people in the open world to interact with because they’ll all be flying around. ^^

Even without fly you don’t need to interact with each other in Norfendre, we are not in Classic and TBC with a weak classes and elites quests. You’ll just solo everything and click on your pseudo + click to Invite to not lost mobs and not wasting time to wait respawn, that’s so.

[Lucillepal-mirage-raceway]

You don’t need to but being able to see more players means more chances to socialize. That’s what I think anyways, it’s their design pillars not mine, I’m just pointing out contradiction.

[Jazem-firemaw]

@Bolanira-zandalar-tribe

@Zalanji-mirage-raceway

I do think RDF has its own merits, and I do think the best thing to do would’ve been to only hold it out of P1. But I’m tired of being met with “lolol it wasn’t in the game until ICC” as a reply to this by ppl who support a system who wasn’t in the game, like, ever.

Again, me saying it wasn’t in the game until later is only an argument against people saying RFD should be in Wrath Classic at launch.

Only problem is that he didn’t want it from launch. Nor do I.
I would want it at phase 2. Which, timewise, really isn’t much earlier then it was originally.
But, alas, it is really tiresome only being met with something like “NO, it wasn’t in until the end along with ICC”. Which is such a poor argument it barely can be called an argument at all.

[Bolanira-zandalar-tribe]

@Jazem-firemaw

Only problem is that he didn’t want it from launch. Nor do I.
I would want it at phase 2. Which, timewise, really isn’t much earlier then it was originally.
But, alas, it is really tiresome only being met with something like “NO, it wasn’t in until the end along with ICC”. Which is such a poor argument it barely can be called an argument at all.

Then it is a good thing I never used it as an argument against anything that Zalanji wrote.

We had an all or nothing argument. Then, out of the blue, Zalanji brings up that argument.

[Necromon-tarren-mill]

@Bolanira-zandalar-tribe

Moot point, you won’t equip your alts with full heirloom sets early on in Wrath.

You can even buy them from multiple sources … honor, badges, keeper shards.

[Bolanira-zandalar-tribe]

@Necromon-tarren-mill

You can even buy them from multiple sources … honor, badges, keeper shards.

Will you spend these resources on heirlooms first thing you do? No. So you won’t have them at the start of Wrath Classic.

[Homu-gehennas]

Another “muh flying” ruined classic experience thread and so on. Didn’t even read the whole thread but I’m 100% sure someone already aksed to completely disable flying in wotlk.
Go play retail, they listened to idiots and made some non flying zones, which are the worst anti-fun experience I had in this game

[Necromon-tarren-mill]

@Bolanira-zandalar-tribe

Will you spend these resources on heirlooms first thing you do? No. So you won’t have them at the start of Wrath Classic.

Cause raids are piss easy in dungeon gear?
You also haven’t answered, what exactly are people competing for with alts?