maybe so but the gap wouldnt even be close to what it is now with fresh dinged players having 80-90k hp , casuals having between 200-330k, and raiders having 440k+.
That’s a power creep issue and not a PVE/PVP issue.
The advantage you get from communication is also relative to your skill level. Communication between skilled players is a much bigger advantage than communication between less skilled players.
Communication becomes mandatory once you get to higher skill levels, when min-maxing for performance becomes much more common.
What you have to consider is that not all pre-mades are try-harding, they’re not all honor grinding and seeking to dominate games. A lot are simply small groups of friends playing casually after work or school. If you force pre-mades out of battlegrounds, it’s these players that get screwed over.
True though that may be, playing casually also sets your personal MMR to that rank, making it more difficult for you to climb when you actually do start playing properly, rather than casually.
There’s also the problem with trying to balance things to skill and ability, because there’s more to balance than just player ability. There’s class, gear and team composition to consider also. The reality is that we will never see a game like WoW perfectly balanced, it’s just not a feasible expectation.
I’m not blaming players though, because I don’t see casual premades in battlegrounds as a problem. The few people that it is a problem for are likely going to find something else to rant about and/or get frustrated over, whether you ban friends from grouping or not. I know the feeling, I’ve gotten angry at PVP related content (in WoW and every other game I’ve played)
But fair is also a relative term, some base fairness on chance whilst others base it on work and effort. In theory, the only advantage grouping with friends would give is communication. I haven’t played retail in a while, but don’t you get the option to join WoW-voice-chat with your group members? The only advantage that playing with friends gives then is that you actually like the people you’re communicating with.
Realistically impossible, you can’t please everybody.
The problem there is that you’re then forcing the casual players to play properly, instead of just playing for fun. And by pushing some players out of casual battlegrounds and into rated battlegrounds, you’d be reducing RBG queues at the cost of increased queues for random battlegrounds.
Rated does have a potential to fill a void, but pushing casuals into it isn’t the solution. The more effective method of achieving anything in an online game is to entice, rather than force.
My suggestion would be simple; increase the rewards from rated battlegrounds slightly, at both the low and high end of MMR. Not so much that raiders are forced to play rated battlegrounds for entry gear, but enough so that they’re a better alternative to random battlegrounds.
That doesn’t do much for the OP, who simply doesn’t want premades in his/her battlegrounds. My suggestion for that would be to reduce the reward given to players based upon party size.
Honor currently isn’t worth much at the moment, but lets pretend say we’re still using a system where you can buy gear with honor. Reducing rewards based on party size could work as follows:
Party of 2 - no penalty.
Party of 3 - 5% less honor or exp.
Party of 4 - 10% less Honor or exp.
Party of 5 - 15% less Honor or exp.
Party of 1 - 5% Increased honor or exp.
This leaves premades with the ability to still play with friends, assuming they’re just playing for casual fun and don’t care for rewards. However, the premades that the OP is ranting about would find it MUCH more benefitial to just jump into rated in order to grind their honor.
Yes, reducing the limiations reduces the queue time. It’s the with Heroes of the Storm; Quick Match queues went up when the game tried to balance each team, rather than throwing a randomly selected group together.
You could remove every restriction and get some super fast queue times, but that would create other problems. The thing about WoW is that whenever a problem is fixed, another is created.
They should at least give us different queue for us who play better. Rated bg are dead. No groups.
A rogue says he will defend lh. But he forgets to cap lh. They should be in different queue.
If you are in a grp just force random join timers so they dont join randoms… its called random for a reason.
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If there were an option for solo queue (ie. Premade vs Premade & Solo vs Solo), I’d have bought BfA and played PvP still.
I stopped in Legion since the pruning just made the solo queue experience so much worse than ever before.
Now, I’ve never rly been bothered about 5mans etc. in bg’s before legion where your class felt like half of a class (ie. premades will cover the missing stuff for eachother, while solo players chances were reduced even further)
It drained all the fun of just coming home from work and jumping into a couple bg’s b4 making dinner etc.
Used to be challenging and (albeit rarely) exciting to go up vs premades.
After legion though, its just a snoozefest and you can only practice wsg jumps so many times in spirit form, before just quitting the pvp side of the game (which to me, was akin to quitting altogether)
So, what is gonna lose the most players, booting premades or solo queuers ? I have no idea, I just miss the days where a solo player could challenge (and sometimes win) vs bad/poorly coordinated premades.
Either the bad premaders left the game (highly likely) or the premades just got an ever bigger ez-mode with the triple pruning.
And the “get your own premade” solution only works for people whom dont mind cheesing the games (no challenge, ez-mode wins) and standing at the enemy gy and killing the 3 ppl/bots that dont stop ressing gets equally as boring as jumping around in spirit form.
Were premades given the treatment of twinks (different q) I’d start playing premades all day.
I’d say that would prob be a win-win (challenging games for premade groups, and more approachable bgs for solo players) and whatever you feel like playing you’d just switch it up.
Dont know if the current playerbase can support it though, but also fairly certain it would give pvp a much needed activity boost.
My 2c
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Oops wanted to reply on this toon rather than my 19 lock.
Sorry bout that ^^
True i used to twink alot in the 19s 29s 60s 70s and was having a ton of fun first day were they made it locked xp vs locked xp ques etc was fine the day after we sat 20 ppl atleast on each side in the 19s bracket and qued for over 2 hours without a single pop and sadly we cant do anything with all the cry babies that keeps crying abour premades even though there is like 50 threads about it each week
you mean crybaby who can’t win and bad at the game so they go premade like Kiri said (no challenge, ez-mode wins) , go back your rated BG kid thats why blizzard put it in the first place
Alrigth kiddo read it again never said i did premades i said i think its ridicoulus that they killed twinking since it was alot of content for a decent amount of ppl and i said its stupid that ppl keep making threads about premades cus there is 500 of them already
and on a side note stop being so entitle and play classic were ppl with the iq that you have should be
Unlikely, since many of the players in given premades are quite horrible. They just tend to swap targets on the exact same second.
Nah. The only thing that ruins it atm is the exploit to bypass the 5man premade limit. Nothing more nothing less.
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entitled and saying ( its stupid that ppl keep making threads about premades cus there is 500 of them already ) like you mod or something no ? then why you care ? let people create threats that does matter and people spam it for good reason
also this is my alt and i main retail seems you thous kind of people who judge according to pixels on their screens lol and yeah cuz spam world quest and rep grind and RNG fest is high iq compare to classic…sure lmao not sure why clowns liek you doing here
Fair assessment. And you could very well be right.
I can only speak to my own personal experience and theories/conclusions.
But i personally felt that, pre-legion, my end game classes (mage, priest, lock, sham, war, druid & rogue) were capable of.maybe not carrying vs premades but at the very least put up a fight.
After legion, its just game over if your jumped by 2ppl (no blood horror, mortal coil, howl of terror, shadowfury nor popping a soulshard and teleport to get 8sec speed inc and immune to snares etc)
Which just made 5man coordinating in bgs much more powerful, even if the individual players were sh!t.
All you could do after legion was to just face tank the melees and hope their mice/keyboards would break as to stand a chance.
Which also (to me at least) meant the small intricate mind games were gone from pvp.
Case in point: blood horror vs spell reflect etc.
edit: @ 5:08
’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWA9Oil3Za0 ’
and sorry for the forum char, dont rly know why it changed to my old hunter tink.
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again read what i wrote i said its stupid that ppl did it not that they couldnt and never said they cant make them so again stop reading what you want to and read what i actually typed
Do ppl rly find premades enjoyable though?
I guess different strokes for different folks…
I mean every time I’ve played in 5mans (no voice), they usually end up as a complete stomp/snoozefest, and after 2-3 games had me falling asleep at the keyboard(kindda like raiding):
/i.imgur.com/npeNYgo.jpg
I much prefer loosing games that could get the adrenaline pumping (something I also feel was lost after Legion), rather than winning games where you could practically be AFK.
That’s just me though, and I have no problem with ppl running 5mans, I would just presume those players would get bored rather fast?
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If they remove 5 players queue function. Bye bye to your random bg queues. Welcome 50 minutes queue.
They can only make improvement as removing more than +5 players premades. And I explained on another topic how can be avoided.
Random bg queue was 30 seconds on wotlk now you wait 10 minutes.
I presume you have some data/facts to corroborate said claims?
Queue times are indicative of fewer people playing overall. And even fewer doing BG’s, I’d assume.
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Avoiding 2-5 players queue will make your random bg queue very bad.
I queue german , english and russian bgs all day long. Queue is unacceptable. Like 15 minutes for eu. 22 minutes for german bg. And 27 minutes for russian bg.
Think when you removed that 5 player queue function. How long will your queue times become? Would you rather play? Or wait more than 25-30 minutes for 10 players bg.
So your proof/data is more opinion? Gotcha
I didn’t mind the initial 1-2hrs queue for 19 twink bg’s WotLK - WoD(since the games were 9/10 times highly competitive and enjoyable and knowing every single player on the field created some epic rivalries etc.)
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My proof is just queue bgs and experience the queue times. This is everyone’s experience.
Queue times on wow right now is unacceptable. You will make 1 bg every 1 hour , right now you make 2-3 bgs every hour. I’m over 18k bgs in 1 year. Dont teach me queue times of wow.
Not my experience.
And your still selling your personal opinion as fact.
It’s disingenuous at best, and does nothing to help further the discussion.
It’s akin to when a child screams and yells in order to get its way. If you know what I mean. (IMO)
And if queue times are low atm it’s due to low pop / low participation. The reverse argument could be equally as true(removing premades could get more players playing PvP hence reducing que times)
Opinions are opinions
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