I can’t speak for PvP but from the PvE standpoint, the time and effort that goes into all of these types of content we mentioned is nowhere close to the amount of time they put into dungeons and raids, and it shows.
That’s the content that I and a huge number of people play WoW for, and the problems started in BFA when they become paranoid that no one wanted to do all the new stuff they made, Islands, Warfronts etc. Warfronts they handled well since the rewards were transmog, so even I did them even if I didn’t greatly enjoyed them since I wanted those transmog items. I could gladly skip a week or two any time.
Islands, Torghast, and Visions, they forced people to do and that’s why people complain and rightfully so. It’s not the content they signed up for yet they have to do it so they can enjoy the content they want.
Again, this problem didn’t exist in Legion because they were confident enough to let people interact with their content if they wanted. Mage tower, broken scenario, M+, so many new things and none of them mandatory. Even world quests were barely required and they were extremely fast and convenient.
Torghast is to me the worst of all of those because it’s stupidly long which only compounds with alts. 1 hour a week becomes 2 and 3 hours, not to mention having to go through every single floor one by one on alts and the entire storyling being time gated.
My only gripe with torg is alts having to do the lower layers…if i’ve done them on one char, it’d be nice to have the option to start higher on an alt to discover my pace for them on this new class…but i have to go from the beginning and tbh layers 1-3 are a waste of time as they present next to no challenge, they very much are a chore, but the higher layers can be challenging if you lack gear, not as challenging as the early weeks but if you do them on a char who isn’t overgeared to the nines (I’ve done most of mine this week around 155 ilevelish up to unlocking layer 7 as holy spec, hit 60 start of week) they are fair enough.
For chars whom are geared, you’re meant to be doing TC.
It would be nice if TC could also award the ash you’d otherwise get from the “normal” runs so you have the option to earn it in the "harder"content as well if you’re at that point.
So yeah, a few QoL changes and it’d be fine. It has potential to be really good if blizzard perservere with it and explore what can be done with it rather than turn it into some stupid solo quest content that lasts 5 minutes like some people seem to want it to be, all because of soul ash.
That’s the thing! This just happens on its own. You’ll get your BiS 235 legendary and that’s it. Ignore Torghast from here on out and do absolutely as fine as the rank 1 player in the world.
If we’re gonna criticise Torghast let’s focus on what’s bad about it instead of just asking Blizzard to effectively delete it. I did so in the past.
No, I’m not missing his point, I just disagree with its premise. I don’t want him to be able to ignore Torghast completely, even on his alt.
Why don’t anyone talk about what’s wrong with Torghast so we can make it fun instead of just deleting everything? I did so here:
Torghast is nothing like these things. These were things you had to grind for days of playtime, sucking up all your available time to do anything else. Torghast is done in a few hours of playtime spread over about a month. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill.
There are many problems with Torghast, but Soul Ash? Come on.
EDIT: Also, Legion did have this problem. I remember being repeatedly asked to farm 1 dungeon for 100+ hours, yet all the time I hear people saying “omg Legion was so good never had stuff like this”. Dude, please. Wake up man.
Torghast isn’t a roguelike either. It sortta resembles one but it lacks a lot of critical features. It’s a lot more like an ARPG than a Roguelike. It resembles Diablo, not Hades.
Because it’s been talked about to death and anyone who visits these forums once a month should know all the problems by now. It’s unfixable because it was lacking from the start.
Powers are class instead of spec-specific, which follows their stupid scatterbrained attempt at unprunning and focusing the entire expansion on the “class” instead of spec fantasy. Unprunning useless abilities is just as pointless as getting anima powers that have nothing to do with your spec, making Torghat runs atrocious.
It can be fun when you’re getting great powers that synergize together, it’s utter garbage when you aren’t, and so far I’ve had the later experience far more often.
I disagree with this but I only started BFA around 8.1. I was never spamming islands more than 3 for the weekly AP chunk and was never lagging behind. Visions were also extremely quick and frontloaded with rewards. If you just wanted your cloak uprade you go in and kill the first boss within 2 minutes, that’s it.
That 1 hour a week with a main ends though, you forget that.
I have to do it for what, 4 weeks? Then i’m done. DONE.
In older iterations of WoW those “quick and easy world quests” you mentioned? Yeah we had MONTHS of doing them on repeat to grind reputation which was needed for this or that small advantage (which is what a leggo is, is it not?)
I mean Leggos are an advantage, approx 5% to ur performance in PvE perhaps and PvP mileage varies, some a bigger some are smaller. But required? No. I’ve purposefully delayed crafting mine this first week when I could after dinging 60 because I found some very cheap rank 2 vessel and thought I may as well save this week, buy the cheaper rank 2 vessel and just start with rank 2 instead. I’ve done BGs and rated arena without my leggo.
Nobody stopped me. Nobody even brought it up. In several of those BGs I was topping our healing meter and HK meter as well as being the biggest dmg dealing healer in the entire BG.
So if you’re finding that you CANNOT do X or Y because of a leggo, you either need to get new friends or have a word with yourself because honestly, it’s not true.
People in WoW (and game sin general) just to stop equating “I can’t do it” with “Unless I do this thing I will not be 100% optimal at it hypothetically” because they are NOT the same.
If being totally optimal mattered to people as much as they claim all we’d see are the biggest logging classes in the forums but we don’t. So clearly in some respects they “play what they like” but for this, they simply can’t seem to do the same. Why not?.
I don’t particularly like farming money just to buy leggos but there we go. I either suck it up or I do without.
Why? Questline gives you a shot of Torghast. You can decide at this point whether you like it or not. Maybe Blizzard should put gear rewards to pet battles? Win 20 pet battles and you get random 213 ilvl
I don’t like cucumber soup, no matter what you add to it, I won’t like it cause I don’t like it. I let people enjoy things, but people should let me NOT enjoying things.
I know some people who were forced to play on piano or other instrument and despite they were good - they hated it. And no, forcing doesn’t mean holding gun to one’s head like most defenders here claim.
Dunno why posters here go on complete extreme conclusions about literally everything. Is it so hard to understand that some people don’t like specific content and don’t want it to give strong rewards for content they like to do?
Mandatory in case of WoW that’s being discussed means and has always meant, being suboptimal unless you don’t do it. It’s player power plain and simply, and no you don’t have to be racing for world first to need it, it affects your performance or even playstyle for certain specs.
No one’s saying you can’t perform well without them but you are in 100% of the cases performing worse without them. The problem is that the game didn’t have these problems for so long and now we can’t string 2 expansions together that aren’t doing the exact same thing regarldess of thousands of people being unhappy with the system.
Also, the main premise of your comment is based on a misconception. You are done with your main right now, take a look back at Legion or any expansion and Blizzard’s history with balancing. In a month they can ruin BiS legendaries for any spec or add new ones to the game, which only ends in you refarming Torghast once again.
Regarding the Torghast questline, they removed the timegating on it.
And there is an alternate, if tiny source for Soul Ash, the mission board. Trouble with that is that Venthyr or Kyrians can forget all about it due to bad troops.
yeah I enjoy performing well, else why am I bothering to earn gear in the first place? But I ever reach a point where i’m actually being made unhappy by doing something in the game, i’d begin to question what i’m doing.
I do stuff even if i’m suboptimal because why on earth should I let being neurotic about a hypothetical performance impact what I actually do? I don’t not go outside because hypothetically a plane might fall on my head. I go outside because I want to go outside. Similarly if I want to do rated pvp, I will do it, my (at the time) 160 ilevel and lack of leggo be damned. And so I did.
So if your own imposition of “but what I want to do is X, but be HIGH PERFORMING” you need to recognize you are the one placing that imposition on yourself. Yes, it sucks that blizzard have designed whatever in whichever way, but they are not forcing you to respond to it in that way.
Nothing in alcohol forces people to punch people. Yet people wh oare drunk do so. We still hold them responsible for it, even if the drink made it a potential that was only mere before. In the same way you refusing to do content X or Y because of lack of leggo or whatnot might be something blizzard’s design have contributed to, but to place the blame on them, for you not doing it is to basically remove all sense of personal autonomy you have which is absolutely daft. You’re not a robot.
With any other choice you make, if something you are choosing to do is making you sad, you typically choose to do different. Exercise the same capacity here as opposed to trying to offload the consequences of choices you choose onto other people as if you’re a purely mechanistic object that bounces around a billiard table only influenced by external forces.
If nothing else (you may decide that at your core, you still can only do X If and only if you can also have the leggo performance, a wierd potential stipulation but i’ll allow it) just apply the same reasnoning you would IRL. When you are faced with a situation where you really want to do something but you must do Y first, what do you do? Do you do Y, because that thing is really important to you and you want to do it? Or do you decide it isn’t important?
What I can bet you don’t do, is rail about how whomever is in charge of Y needs to stop making you do Y because you cannot adjust your own preferences, instead asking them to adjust their own intentions instead.
ie in this case, Blizzard WANTED Torghast to be linked to legendaries. You are essentially saying “because I do not like this thing, and I do not like doing X without Y (your content of choice without leggo performance) I suggest you change your intentions towards it.”
When phrased like this, surely you can see why one may reject it. You’re essentially saying you don’t wish to be flexible in your preferences, so someone else must adjust theirs, without giving them a logical reason as to why they should do that.
Particularly in this case it’s relevant as it’s a clash between your preference of “feeling a need to be 100% at whatever i’m doing” (whilst you can and have acknowledged you can still do that content, but it will annoy you to do it unoptimally) versus the developers wishing to impose a design philosophy for a new part of the game.
So we have overarching design philosophy versus “I understand this isn’t a hard limit and can do it, but honestly it annoys me if I do it this way, so please change it”.
You’re completely free to voice your thoughts and they are valid, I just think people forget blizz are developers and they have a right to forward creative philosophies onto their game, and i don’t see how someone being “a bit irked” that they can do something a bit less optimally than they’d prefer even compares as to whether an author (like blizzard) has the right to exercise their own creative visions, like they’re not even comparable.
Your stance is for the right to do something you acknowledge you can do anyway, in comfort. Blizzard’s is for the right for them to do something in a manner of speaking at all. In this situation I recognize that, which is why I suck it up and do stuff I dislike in the game where i understand it takes up only a fraction of my time. Like BFA and the islands etc. I hated them. But it is what it is. The entire game cannot cater to my every whim and preference 100% of the time.
When it originally came out everybody loved it, but it was structured completely differently.
The problem with Torghast isn’t the way it functions, it’s the way it’s been tied together and the amount of complaints Blizzard received about it for no good reason, changing things that undid what made it fun.
Now we’re in a completely different territory. Anyway, I use almost every spell that’s been unpruned. I think the only exception is Frostbolt. That’s right, I use Fireblast as Frost - it’s good for killing shaman totems. Arcane Explosion is good when I want to AoE but the tank is moving the mobs, etc. etc.
That’s not been the case for me, and I think that might be because I’m spotting synergies that you’re not.
Well, you’re just plain wrong. The list of daily and weekly activities in BfA, nevermind doing the same kind of content multiple times, was at least 25 items. It was awful. By the time I was done with my weeklies and my raids I’d already played 15+ hours for the week which left me effectively no time to actually play what I really wanted to play. That fact eventually fatigued me into playing very little at all.
Torghast absolutely has some problems in that it doesn’t slot into an MMO, but those problems can be fixed. Making everything a personal instance is not inherent to the concept of a winding, seemingly random and illogical tower.
I agree they could’ve done a lot more with Torghast, but people were whining about it. They were whining about everything. It was too long, it was too free-form, it was too hard, and now it’s too much of a chore because all the life got sucked out of it. Whoop-de-do.
It’s partial removal of timegating, or at least it wasn’t live earlier this week. I dinged 60 around weds/thurs and did the first part and Bolvar will not offer me any questlines at current. So I think some parts of removed from timegating but the transition from the first week to second still seems to be timegated which is ridiculous honestly. If you’re going to untimegate it, do it for everything.
