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What tiny dead server are you playing on that has no guilds that don’t start at 6pm?
The same as all the other server that has no guild that raid at 9:30
Why would you not want your character to be as strong as possible in a rpg?
Yes, world buffs are an incredibly annoying mechanic in that you can lose them easily to several events before or during raid and there is no way to get a new set, unlike consumables. Even worse is that you can not get them at your leisure, but have to plan around doing them with guild or at low traffic times to minimize the risk of ganking.
The people in semi-casual guilds that do not have a system in place to just chain summon everyone around the world for 20 min before the raid are arguably impacted the most, as they (me) have to do it on our own, at night/early morning and stay off for day/days.
That being said, I’d rather endure them untill blessed TBC arrives and does away with them and other blatent flaws of Vanilla, than get a change now that will make my life easier for the next year, but might be used to justify other changes that I would hate even more. So we trudge on.
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but my spec can’t perform without world buffs 
Having world buffs gives the raider(s) a strong incentive not to screw up and stay alive until the raid is over, which is a good thing with one exception:
how many times have you seen people lose their world buffs and turn into careless wretches that couldn’t care less if the raid wipes so that they can look better on the meters now that they are at a disadvantage?
i’ll tell you something, my guildies joke about this all the time, and so do i. but i have also seen this actually happen to full effect.
say a mage gets unluckily debuffed on Vael and instead of insta-hearthing he dies… this mage may or may not be totally careless during the rest of the raid since he has nothing to lose and everything to gain from other people dying when it comes to his own ego.
Yes, i know it sounds ridiculous, but some people are that selfish.
however, its also a surefire way to being benched for the next raid if you’re caught blatantly making ‘mistakes’ that get people killed. like when you deliberately screw up on the lab packs hoping as many people die as possible so you can inch your way up the meters after ‘evening out the competition’.
I wouldn’t go as far as deliberately sabotaging the raid, but I absolutely stop caring about my performance, survival or anything else really if I die with world buffs.
On the other hand, it is liberating in a sense that I can go absolutely suicidal in supression, on technicians or on the vulnerable draconids, if I live, kudos to healers, if not, well, I had nothing to lose to begin with.
For the same reason why many ppl don’t like the idea of using cheat codes in single-player games to make themselves completely OP.
And because, unlike in the case of cheat codes, wbuffs actually require a lot more circuitous and annoying action to be obtained, and if they’re lost to a freak accident they’re gone for the rest of the night.
Ultimately it’s one of the many reasons why the majority of ppl will drop Vanilla for TBC Classic in a heartbeat once it launches, and won’t ever come back (copy or not)
3 Likes
No problem, TBC will the wipe the hell out of these annoying world buffs.
Cheating and getting a buff is not really the same.
I’m not saying getting a buff is like cheating. I’m saying it trivializes the game to a similar extent. It’s the same reason why, for example, many players refrain from using X Attack and similar items in Pokemon - they’re not cheating since ofc they’re part of the game, but they make the whole playthrough hilariously easy.
1 Like
Probably True
While I can’t speak for your individual personal circumstances there are thousands of players that just get the buffs the day before or morning before etc etc. If you have personal commitments then you can’t expect the whole game to be changed to fit one person.
Well I’m forced to agree with that, but it’s easily avoidable
Reminds of the “If Timmy ran under a bus, would you do it too?” allegory. No you don’t have to get them. If it’s a guild requirement either spoken or unspoken then you can always change the guild you’re in. And once again I don’t know the individual circumstances that lead you to be in your current guild, but the game can’t be changed for one person.
Not having buffs does not automatically mean that you will be at the bottom of DPS metres.
And I can already hear the response of - but buffs make a massive difference, my guild is min/maxed etc etc. Essentially there is no way to close the gap with skill - in which case may I remind you that you choose your guild.
The content has been rolled over so far, personally I think that AQ will be rolled over too with maybe the exception of C’thun. This would make the game harder, but again if you want to play on ‘hard mode’ then you don’t need to get the buffs.
I wonder if a ‘challenge’ is important people who want to make the game harder, there’s dozens of ways to do that, wasn’t MC cleared with 40 shaman? Or do they just want to be in an “exclusive club”, if so then there’s an element of defining their success by other’s failure.
What’s wrong with wanting content that isn’t a faceroll for everyone, or with wanting to be able to compete on meters without having to deal with the headache of wbuffs?
Not saying that I’d want the game to be changed at this point, but is it really that hard for you to imagine that lots of people don’t like this feature and won’t miss it once TBC/WotLK come?
So they are two parts to this question.
The first part is that if you are min/maxing everthing in the game then the game will get easier as you do that. - I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to already know that but that needs to be underlined. As it links back to the original post.
The second part is a schadenfreude. To use an allegory, if you run a marathon, then no-one can take that away from you. The question would be does it matter how many other people did it.
(edit third part)
There’s an oddity here, players seem to be scrambling to make their characters as powerful as possible. - Which race is best for my class/spec, which gear is Best In Slot for everyslot, how many potions and elixirs can i stack, what is the optimal raid set-up, there needs to be this totem in that group and this group. Then the same players are shouting, but after i’ve min/maxed to 99.99% the game is really easy? – Well D’uh!
This is optional which I’ve already covered, not only that but it’s optional within optional. I (and I am sure you have too) outperformed others with WB with none myself.
Hello leatherworking Drums!
I’d say there’s a 50% chance they’ll change that, but if not trading the fire pan for the fire.
So basically, everybody who wants a challenge is just there for the schadenfraude? Interesting thought.
Leatherworking drums are completely different from world buffs.
Drums are basically a form of consumable that you need to have a certain profession to use. You know, like sappers in Vanilla. But unlike world buffs, they don’t require you to log in (or log out) at specific times to grab them, nor are they cancelled out permanently as soon as you die. Even if you die once, you can just use drums the next pull.
Yes - mostly due to sheer luck or very mediocre play from the other guy. All other elements being equal, you can’t seriously understate how big of an impact +15% spell crit alone has on your total DPS (and that’s for casters - for melee the gap is much, much wider).
All I’d want is to have a game where you just pop up some consumables (possibly not costing a ton of money like currently in Vanilla due to flasks and elixir/food stacking), and go to town.
Again, it kinda eludes me how you can find this stance unreasonable. And it never ceases to amaze me when most people’s best defense for world buffs is “you don’t have to use them”. If the best thing you can say about a game mechanic is “it’s optional”, that speaks volume of how bad it is in and of itself.
That’s the “second part”, that’s the “I want to be in an exclusive club part”
The first part is
Links to
Drums are substantially more powerful than world buffs for two reasons.
You can have them for multiple attempts
Each use buffs 5 players not 1.
This is the “convenience” that is part of retail. Classic isn’t about to convince or hyperbalance.
Part of my objection is - and then and then and then retail. But in this case it’s probably only 5%
I also object to -it’s a pain so get rid of it
and It makes the game too easy, for reasons I’ve already gone into. repeated in quotes
How is it a challenge if that’s something everyone can do effortlessly? Ofc the exclusivity is an essential part of it (at least as long as it’s linked to skill and not just to nolifing as in the R14 grind)
- A single Ony head can buff up hundreds of ppl at once, wth are you talking about?
- The fact you can have them for multiple attempts, instead of losing them forever after the first death, is what makes them less tedious and more manageable.
Ah yeah, the typical “if you want convenience then you want retail” retort, I was wondering how long it’d take before reading one. Because clearly everything that is not Classic is Retail. TBC, WotLK etc. might as well not exist, everything is BFA.
Or maybe just TBC.
Ok there’s a lot to unpack here
I’m going to assume you’re not using the literal definition of “effortlessly” in turn you should acknowledge that not exclusive is not the same as effortless and indeed not “everyone” will clear everything. The raids will get harder, but I don’t expect them to get hard enough to be as exclusive as say current tier mythic retail raids.
Why can you just be happy with your own personal achievements?
On the subject of not interpretation things literally, yes a head can affect the entire population of ogrimmar or whatever. You don’t have them all in the raid with you. Again I know you know this and I expect you know the point i’m driving at but for clarity.
When you a player gets a buff it effects that one person, when drums are used they effect 5 people. This is important as person can use the drums so you can get 25 buffs if each person uses them,
The second point is more key, as it means that you’re able to use the buffs on the content you are wiping on, therefor you are struggling on. I’m sure I don’t have to explain why that’s more significant.
Well yeah I have to agree with you here, but that is what you’re asking for.
I’m not sure if you’re being sincere, but what that mean’s is if you keep changing things eventually you’ll turn classic into retail
That all said.
I do think you’ll get more of what you want when Naxx is out as WB don’t persist through death and you’ll probably see that being slightly more exclusive, at least in the first few weeks.
I’m not saying I want to see Classic changed into TBC or w/e. I’m pretty much with Nicolay on this point.
I’m saying that me and many others will jump onto TBC as soon as it releases, and one of the main reasons will be that TBC no longer has wbuffs to worry about, and more mechanically interesting fights, while still retaining the core elements of Vanilla that still made the game as enjoyable as it is.
It also means the PvE content can be more tightly tuned because you can take these buffs into account (unlike wbuffs), which generally results in less easily cheesable fights and more enjoyable challenges.
I’m sure I don’t have to explain why this is significant.
This interesting, I’m on the fence on if TBC will be face-rolled.
However…
I’ve heard that Blizz said that drums were a mistake, so I think that drums do “cheese” the fight to use your words.
At least it won’t be as braindead as Vanilla. To put things in perspective…
Patchwerk has a 7 min enrage timer, and can be killed in less than 2 mins with wbuffs and full consumables.
Brutallus has a 6 min enrage timer, and even with the best gear and consumes you’d be hard pressed to kill him in less than 4 mins.
They were a mistake in the sense that Leatherworking was too powerful compared to other professions, much like Engineering was in Vanilla. Even then, though, they weren’t as annoying as wbuffs, since once you actually got Leatherworking they just worked like a normal consumable (and a pretty cheap one at that), instead of all the headaches wbuffs come with.