Agree TBC will “kill” classic at least 99% of it, personally i’m going to play to WoTLK then WoW in anything resembling retail or cata and later is dead to me.
But i’m glad we agree that WB shouldn’t be changed, if for different reasons.
I thought about this and came up with an analogy that might be somewhat fitting:
Do you ever go back to replay an old series of games, starting from the first one, knowing it is nowhere near as polished/balanced/good as the later entries into the series? You know, something like Witcher, Age of Empires, Warcraft 1/2, maybe even Baldur’s Gate 1.
You start at the start, because you believe that’s how the series are meant to be played. The act of playing the game is about 30% tedium, 30% fun and 30% nostalgia and maybe 10% actual objectively good gameplay, but you do it anyway because then you will properly enjoy the later, better versions. In fact they will stand out all the better because you got through the first, “meh” one beforehand.
That is how I feel about Classic. I feel somewhat obliged to kill Kel’Thuzad, because 1.) I never did it in Vanilla and 2.) I will enjoy switching to TBC for ever after all the more for it.
It will be like finishing Starcraft 1 campaign and starting up Starcraft 2. Yes, unlimited selection! Yes, waypoints to minerals! Yes, somewhat competent pathing AI!
I do this every raid when Darkmoon Faire is not in town. I have extremely limited game time since the lockdown (unlike most people I reckon), so I almost strictly raidlog for the last 3 months. Nobody comments, of course, but the feeling is miserable. I know I will be below our deep frost support mage, just above tanks and the token spriest, boomkin mascot and the one pvp ret who is allowed to raid with us since we lack 2-3 main team raiders. I have caught myself not even bidding on BiS items because I feel I do not deserve them anyway, being a complete freeloading slacker. Feel free to look up my raids logs, Nicolay, Mage on Zandalar Tribe. The difference between buffed and unbuffed raids is staggering.
Yes you can do this easily, but if you have any sort of conscience, you will feel like a complete piece of crap.
And all the pieces fall into place. OF COURSE you are a healer. That is why you have trouble understanding the plight off world buff dependant roles. As a healer, you indeed can “outmeter” another healer with buffs as long as you play smart, precast on people about to get in trouble etc.
As a damage dealer, there is simply no way to perform anywhere near a level of damage dealer with full world buffs, if you lack them youeself, no matter what you do.
As a tank, it’s arguably even worse, since without world buffs, you are hard capping the dps of all your melee damage dealers who do have them.
Just to illustrate, as a Mage, a damage dealer class who benefits the least from world buffs in this phase (arguably, maybe hunters do even less, I don’t know the exact numbers for them), world buffs give me about 20% crit chance and a decent buffer of mana, health and regen. 20% crit translates to roughy 220 raw spell power at BiS values for Arcane Frost spec. That is 20 sp and ton of stats more than all of consumes I can possibly get (flask, 2 elixirs, mageblood, zanza, fort, brain juice, stout). In other words, world buffs are another full set of consumables and then some. You do not outdamage someone with full consumes, unless they are brain dead / dead.
For melee, the situation is much, MUCH worse, since they gain direct damage from crit as well as attack power, as well as raw stats. I am sure some fury war or rogue can enlighten you on just how much world buffs do for them.
Okay, I know this is a rant, but I dare you, like you did with the no buffs raid, try to come to raid as a dps with no world buffs and no consumables, see how you feel about your performance.
Yes I replay games. I’ve actually been replaying Championship Manager 01/02 and it’s much better than Football Manager… whatever, same with Deus Ex.
Not everyone in my guild does it and they feel fine about it. Maybe it just the guild you’re in. If you want to be in a “cutting edge” guild, well then. I can’t change that.
30% health is 300k. How long would it take for 28 DPS to deal 300k damage? That’s barely 10k each. Without world buffs, one can expect around 650 DPS. More during execute phase.
World buffs also don’t prevent you from using potions and consumables. You’re also assuming that you’d have absolutely no nature resistance at all: hunters can provide people with 60 NR. And shamans (albeit Horde only) would be using poison cleansing totem.
You’re really overhyping Huhuren. With or without world buffs, Classic isn’t difficult.
Not sure how it is on any other realms, but here on Mirage Raceway we have a realm discord where the world buffs are scheduled everyday.
All I have to do is log in 3 hours before raid to recieve my world buffs and then log out until raid start. That leaves me with 6 days of the week that I can do anything I feel like ingame.
Can you think about what you just wrote here?
Let’s assume that all 28 people are alive and do 650 dps.
That’s 18200 dps in 10 seconds. You’d need 17 seconds assuming 0 dps die, absolutely 0 dps.
During those 17 seconds, Huhuran will shoot 15 people with 2000 damage 5 times, dealing total of 150000 damage to melee.
This requires the 10 healers to heal at least 1k hps each, while not even counting tank and other raid damage taken.
Math falls off here no? This is considered a tight fight with world buffs by every calculation done by min-maxers, and you think without world buffs it’s doable? Hah.
With 200+ NR, melee take 800 damage instead of 2000 on average, with 60 NR, they’ll take around 1700 damage each anyway, which is still unhealable without world buffs.
Conclusion: World buffs let you skip NR, no world buffs = need NR.
This fight was roadblock in original game, lot of people quit there, some would said it’s mathematically impossible because they didn’t know about world buffs, and they didn’t get 200+ NR.
And tribute buffs? Songflower? Hakkar’s head?
17 seconds isn’t a long time, healers have a big enough mana pool for that and the majority of DPS are going to be warriors anyway; which means even more healing.
That’s a MAXIMUM total, assuming there’s ZERO nature resistance and ZERO potions.
It was considered a tight fight in the old days, not now.
People back in the old days thought Patchwerk was a tight fight.
Vaelstrazs was a roadblock in the original game.
Not anymore, she got plowed with ease. Just as Huhuren and the Twin Emporers will. Classic is NOT a hard game. It doesn’t matter how many arguments you bring up, those 6 words hold true and are irrefutable.
Vaelstrazs didn’t have guilds farming 200 resistance for him, people just didn’t know about threat.
Huhuran was the roadblock, because you needed NR. Or world buffs we got now.
I actually agree with OP.
While I do get all the buffs (even songflower) for the raids each week, I think the game would be better off without them.
- It would make everyone equal in the raid
- It just isn’t fun to collect the world buffs constantly, especially if you do so on more than one character. It’s a “gotta do it” kind of thing, but I wouldn’t call the buff collecting itself fun.
- It would make vanilla raids harder, which would actually be nice.
Do a tribute before world buffs on raid day. I don’t do songflower so no word on that. Hakkar buff happens about 5 minutes after Ony/Nef head schedule.
I agree with this, if you want to parse and be top dps grab wbuffs if you just want to raid for fun don’t bother grabbing them, games are meant to be fun
72 pages of “WUAAAAAAH”… seriously stop b****ing about worldbuffs, you can get fully worldbuffed within an hour you lazy SoB.
and about dying during raid with worldbuffs… well… what can i say; git gud.
maybe start by looking at your threat, don’t overaggro, and you won’t die. also maybe don’t stand in fire.
all these “REMOVE WORLDBUFFS” threads are seriously getting tiresome. go back to retail or get your buffs and shut the **** up.
Think you need to find a better guild
Dw, I’ll go to TBC next year, instead, and will 
you from my “worldbuff-less” version of WoW while yours languishes in desolation^^
@Zalanji
Hope you won’t take this too paratonizing but let me tell you a story.
A lot of players say “I suck at rolling”, but i think i’m exemplar of this. Between 52 and 60 I ran only Dungeons, probably 75+ and won only 3 ‘need’ rolls. Of my pre-bis set only 3 items came from contested ‘need’ rolls everything else i just had to run again and again until i was the only person who wanted the item in a group.
Recently i have started a new toon and leveled to 41 without winning a single ‘need’ roll. Today we were doing Uldam and we had to get a replacement after 2 hours for the last boss and guess what, the item i wanted dropped and the replacement got it. ‘Raging’ is not the word, I screamed “Why can i never win a need roll” and I turned the game off.
And you know i feel much better from getting off my hamster wheel. I’m telling you this because I do genuinely think you’ll benefit from hitting your “breaking point” and just not getting the damn buffs, finishing bottom of the DPS meters, at least until someone dies and loses them.
Trust, I think you’ll feel better dude.
Not that I don’t relate to your story (I was the last, in my guild, to finally win the first ZG Idol by roll, and I lost Touch of Chaos at least 6 times already), but I’m not sure how that relates to world buffs, let alone the post I wrote in reply to that moron above.
It’s not directed in response to another post.
It relates to world buffs in that it’s a thing you’re doing that you don’t like and that you should just stop.
Can you please stop assuming what makes me feel better? Thank you very much.
Seriously, I hope you all realize that you only have 1 year at most of relevance left, before all the people you told to “git gud” or “go back to retail” or “just don’t use wbuffs” leave for TBC and leave you alone in your ghost-town Vanilla servers.
Seems a bit of an abrasive response for someone that’s genuinely trying to help you. Much better than me saying what ever “deal with it”. Which is the long and short of what you’ll get from most people.