Please revert survival

[Chapchap-pozzo-delleternità]

My man, you can diversify as much as you can with melee specs lol, you just don’t like ranged combat or the hunter class in general. What you say about bows etcc works for melee too lol who cares from what angle you swing your sword? It lOoKs ThE sAmE. If you oh so like melee combat and want melee hunters, wow is probably not the game for you, you are lucky they decided to butcher the class and delete a specc to make space for melee, but anything more then this would just demonstrate how out of touch they would be. Also we have like 13 melee specs and 11 ranged ones, of all this literally ONE focuses on bows (MM), there is another that uses a bow but doesn’t focus on it (BM) and then you have every flavour of melee one handed/two handed combat you can dream of, you can’t tell me in your brain it would make sense to remove ANOTHER ranged spec that uses a bow to add another unpopular melee option, you are just heavily biased lmao.

@Shaile-tarren-mill

physical ranged CLASSES. not speccs.

Also this is literally the same thing, you say we don’t need specs but then say we need a class, guess what, a class is 2 to three specs put together on a character. Like at least don’t speak against yourself, or explain yourself better please, because this is what i got from this.

[Junglez-nagrand]

Mate, you gotta change your name from Shaile to Shill…

Stop while you’re behind. Just stop.

[Briz-zenedar]

@Shaile-tarren-mill

but also realistic enough that it wont happen, one can dream though.

Would agree with this.

I seriously doubt that it will. OR at least, I hope that it won’t.

Considering this class is the only one that provides us with a way to fight at range while using actual weapons and not spells. Only leaving MM as the sole fantasy for this…especially when there are currently 13 different specs in the game that focus on the use of melee weapons. And you want even more? At the cost of ranged weapon specs?

Just, NO.

@Shaile-tarren-mill

MM and ranged surv were pretty much carbon copies of each other with 2-3 abilities with different names but functioned more similarly than combat and assassination or arms or fury.

Not even sure how you came to this conclusion when comparing the two specializations. But no matter, it’s incorrect.

Fair enough if you determine spec diversity mostly by how many abilities you switch on your action bars. But that does not serve as a basis for a valid argument of “the specs were the same”.

There’s a lot more to it than that.

Thematic design, aesthetics/visuals as well as mechanical interactions matters.

MM was a spec with a focus on hardcasting and about abilities that dealt high instant damage once cast. Providing a playstyle with high intended burst potential.

RSV on the other hand, focused on DoT. And, through that, consistency.
Very little of that spec was about actually casting abilities and none of which required you to stand still. Not to mention the aspect of enhancing traps. Something MM never did.

@Shaile-tarren-mill

There is extremly little you can do do diversify a specc that shoots arrows/bullets. no diverse visual combat like you can with melee with different swings. who cares one shot is elemental instead of physical? it looks the same, does the same thing and you click the same button.

You’re free to have your opinion and your preferences as to what elements of class/spec design which you care about. But as I said earlier, if you want a valid basis for such an argument, you have to take all aspects of the design into consideration. Not just the ones you care about.

But yeah, as for the future and a potential modern version of RSV. This, is what it could look like/be about:

[Suggestions updated] Pre-Legion Survival [4th spec]

Tag: We Miss Old Survival hunter and Why it should be back We all have different opinions on what should’ve happened. Personally, I would very much love to see a playable version of the past, ranged Survival spec we had prior to Legion. As a 4th spec option that is! Why? Still to this day, there are a lot of players who wants to see it return. How/in what form? Opinions vary ofc. Despite certain claims, the spec had a unique approach to it’s design. Especially if you look at the specs Hunte…

Again, fair enough, you don’t care about many aspects of the design. But I can guarantee that if you take all of them into account, the suggested concept would be nothing like current MM(or BM, or MSV).

[anon93379526]

The only survival iteration that should be reverted to is the legion one because the current survival is just a 1-button raptor strike spec.

[Mabizela-lightbringer]

I wish they’d have given Legion SV more time instead of overhauling the spec one expansion later. It had its flaws sure but felt a hell of a lot better as a melee spec than BFA version to me. There is very little of the current iteration that I find appealing in that the only ability I would keep is the bomb and its corresponding talent.

[Shaile-tarren-mill]

@Chapchap-pozzo-delleternità

My man, you can diversify as much as you can with melee specs lol, you just don’t like ranged combat or the hunter class in general. What you say about bows etcc works for melee too lol who cares from what angle you swing your sword? It lOoKs ThE sAmE. If you oh so like melee combat and want melee hunters, wow is probably not the game for you, you are lucky they decided to butcher the class and delete a specc to make space for melee, but anything more then this would just demonstrate how out of touch they would be. Also we have like 13 melee specs and 11 ranged ones, of all this literally ONE focuses on bows (MM), there is another that uses a bow but doesn’t focus on it (BM) and then you have every flavour of melee one handed/two handed combat you can dream of, you can’t tell me in your brain it would make sense to remove ANOTHER ranged spec that uses a bow to add another unpopular melee option, you are just heavily biased lmao.

@Shaile-tarren-mill

physical ranged CLASSES. not speccs.

Also this is literally the same thing, you say we don’t need specs but then say we need a class, guess what, a class is 2 to three specs put together on a character. Like at least don’t speak against yourself, or explain yourself better please, because this is what i got from this.

wrong ofc. there is one way to pull the trigger on a gun, one way to release the hinge on a xbow and one way to let go of the arrow on a bow. but the diversity of how you can swing a melee weapon in a dance? endless. this is not an opinion. its a fact, treat it as such.
skipped most of the useless assumptions that were wrong anyway.
thats not how diversity works. doesnt matter what OTHER classes there are. the only thing that matters is the class itself and how big the diversity it has among its 3 specializations. nothing else. i already agreed that there are too few ranged physical damage classes. its a moot point. we got too few mail classes too but alas. not the point. and no, class is NOT the same thing as specialization, neither literally nor figuratively. we need diversity among our specializations, we got quite good in legion with full melee SV, worse now with this retarded hybrid range/melee. if you dont understand simple train of thoughts just give me a headsup and ill explain even more simpler.

[Shaile-tarren-mill]

@Junglez-nagrand

Mate, you gotta change your name from Shaile to Shill…

Stop while you’re behind. Just stop.

the irony. its glorious.

[Shaile-tarren-mill]

Would agree with this.

I seriously doubt that it will. OR at least, I hope that it won’t.

Considering this class is the only one that provides us with a way to fight at range while using actual weapons and not spells. Only leaving MM as the sole fantasy for this…especially when there are currently 13 different specs in the game that focus on the use of melee weapons. And you want even more? At the cost of ranged weapon specs?

Just, NO.

you dont look further than your nose. with this change it would open up for MORE classes that is physical ranged. (shadow hunter, archer, dark rangers) and not just another magician. yet another one degenerating to whataboutism. the fact there are too few ranged physical damage classes are utterly irrelevant to the point. diversity among specc.

Not even sure how you came to this conclusion when comparing the two specializations. But no matter, it’s incorrect.

Fair enough if you determine spec diversity mostly by how many abilities you switch on your action bars. But that does not serve as a basis for a valid argument of “the specs were the same”.

There’s a lot more to it than that.

Thematic design, aesthetics/visuals as well as mechanical interactions matters.

MM was a spec with a focus on hardcasting and about abilities that dealt high instant damage once cast. Providing a playstyle with high intended burst potential.

RSV on the other hand, focused on DoT. And, through that, consistency.
Very little of that spec was about actually casting abilities and none of which required you to stand still. Not to mention the aspect of enhancing traps. Something MM never did.

i came to that conclusion by playing at that time unlike most here who look back at survival with rose tinged glasses and sentimentality. i played both in pve and pvp extensivly. survival and mm was played more similar than arms and fury or combat and assassination. nothing to argue about. survival was for years a subpar version of mm except for short periods of shine which got clobbered down fast by all the crying MMs.

You’re free to have your opinion and your preferences as to what elements of class/spec design which you care about. But as I said earlier, if you want a valid basis for such an argument, you have to take all aspects of the design into consideration. Not just the ones you care about.

But yeah, as for the future and a potential modern version of RSV. This, is what it could look like/be about

no. the only considerations i have to take and will take is specialization diversity. nothing else matters, i dont care there is no other ranged physical damage, because thats an entirely different discussion. ofc, a 4th specc would be grand, 2 melee and 2 ranged. but thats not gonna happen since druids got a fourth due to their unique problem which we dont have.

Again, fair enough, you don’t care about many aspects of the design. But I can guarantee that if you take all of them into account, the suggested concept would be nothing like current MM(or BM, or MSV).

i care about the only aspects that matters. sentimentality is not one of them. class diversity is not one of them. specialization diversity is the only one relevant.

@anon93379526

The only survival iteration that should be reverted to is the legion one because the current survival is just a 1-button raptor strike spec.

@Mabizela-lightbringer

I wish they’d have given Legion SV more time instead of overhauling the spec one expansion later. It had its flaws sure but felt a hell of a lot better as a melee spec than BFA version to me. There is very little of the current iteration that I find appealing in that the only ability I would keep is the bomb and its corresponding talent.

i agree. the only flaw with legion survival was the stupid mechanic of mongoose fury. where it revolved around spamming mongoose bite over and over and over and over and over and over again lining up your buffs with the duration from 6 stacks to end as well as you could. that was such horrible design. rest was pretty solid and diverse, loved the mechanic of fury of the eagle although its visual was horrendous. zero effort went into designing that animation.
tbh i dont like how they tried to force tinkerer into our specc. bombs and grenades make no sense for a survival. the mechanic was interesting, especially with traits. but it should have been a melee strike instead.

[Zuljano-defias-brotherhood]

No thanks, SV is just fine the way it is right now. SV is an melee spec and must remain that way. If you don’t like it, you’re free to play BM or MM. Thanks for your attention.

[Briz-zenedar]

@Shaile-tarren-mill

you dont look further than your nose. with this change it would open up for MORE classes that is physical ranged

You do know that I was referring to what you said about essentially turning the Hunter into more of a melee class with just MM being the sole ranged fantasy option for Hunters?

Creating new classes for other fantasies would not automatically solve the issues at hand that are currently tied to our class.

I’m all for additional classes being added to provide fantasies such as Dark Rangers, along with other magical archer themes etc. Like the Dragonsworn Archer-concept suggested on MMO-C a while back.

But the above would not make up for the loss of RSV, nor would adding something similar to another class accomplish that.

@Shaile-tarren-mill

i came to that conclusion by playing at that time unlike most here who look back at survival with rose tinged glasses and sentimentality. i played both in pve and pvp extensivly. survival and mm was played more similar than arms and fury or combat and assassination. nothing to argue about. survival was for years a subpar version of mm except for short periods of shine which got clobbered down fast by all the crying MMs

Are you talking design here or tuning/balancing(seems like it at the end there)

Anyway, I played as RSV from WotLK up until HFC(BRF) when they destroyed it.
Saying that a spec that focuses on DoTs and consistency plays the same as one that is about heavy hitters and burst windows…yeah sure. Keep that up.

As I did not play arms/fury I cannot attest to any comparisons on that part. But for the standards set at the time and for what the philosophies were back then, the specs were different enough.

Sure, by today’s standards, those would not do. But that’s not the argument now, is it?

@Shaile-tarren-mill

i care about the only aspects that matters. sentimentality is not one of them

Never said anything about sentimentality…

The fact is that you ignore parts of design which matters to a lot of players in this game. You specifically said that you cared about the number of buttons switched on your action bars. While as anything else, did not seem to matter to you. Hence why your argument is invalid. It has nothing to do with sentimentality.

You flat out stated

who cares one shot is elemental instead of physical? it looks the same, does the same thing and you click the same button

It does not look the same.
The abilities we had did not work in the same way(compare signatures for MM and RSV = Aimed Vs Explosive). The only similarity between those was that they were both ranged shots fired from a ranged weapon.

If that is your chosen depth for a comparison then there’s little more to be said here as you could apply this logic to every single class and spec.

Arms has a melee attack? So does Fury.
Assa has one as well? So does Sub.
And so on…

I’m not arguing that. You are. Again, that is why your argument becomes invalid/flawed.

@Shaile-tarren-mill

bombs and grenades make no sense for a survival. the mechanic was interesting, especially with traits. but it should have been a melee strike instead

As far as a hunter spec that is focusing(supposed to be) on melee attacks and pets, I agree. I believe the Legion iteration of MSV was better in this regard.

@Zuljano-defias-brotherhood

No thanks, SV is just fine the way it is right now. SV is an melee spec and must remain that way. If you don’t like it, you’re free to play BM or MM. Thanks for your attention

You didn’t actually read my other replies, did you?

I have never suggested that MSV should be reverted.

Btw, ‘‘it must remain that way’’?
No it doesn’t…people said the same thing for RSV before they deleted it in favor of the new melee spec. But like I said, I’m not arguing that it should be reverted.

[Chapchap-pozzo-delleternità]

@Shaile-tarren-mill

there is one way to pull the trigger on a gun, one way to release the hinge on a xbow and one way to let go of the arrow on a bow. but the diversity of how you can swing a melee weapon in a dance? endless. this is not an opinion. its a fact, treat it as such.

You only focus on the act of releasing the arrow or pulling the trigger, but completely ignore what you shoot, how you shoot it and how many of them. These are usually the differences in bows/guns and I’m sure I missed something.
You clearly have some bias against ranged combat or haven’t thought about this nearly as deep as you should’ve because what you said is not even close to a fact.

Also you seem to be heavily infatuated with melee combat, and to romanticize it a lot, like referring to it like a dance, which there is nothing wrong with, but to me clearly shows your bias when you don’t even try to show the same courtesy to bows/guns.

@Shaile-tarren-mill

class is NOT the same thing as specialization

Well yes they are not the same thing, but a class is made of specializations so you say we don’t need more ranged specs, but we need more ranged classes. This statement is nonsensical, in this case they accomplish the same objective, which is why i said that you saying make BM melee made no sense, you advocate for more physical ranged dps, but then try to remove one? You can’t blame me for being confused at this.
The only thing that comes to mind is you think there would need to be a ranged physical class that doesn’t use guns nor bows, which i mean, sure it would be cool to have something like an axe throwing barbarian or something like that, but if this is true you should specify, because as of right now in Wow the only way to do physical ranged damage is with a bow or gun, so i have to assume you would use one of those if you don’t specify, which you failed to do in your last post. Also while it would be cool, it wouldn’t solve the problem that we only have one class that focuses on the bow/ammo, Which is a problem since the removal of rsv.

[Briz-zenedar]

@Chapchap-pozzo-delleternità

You only focus on the act of releasing the arrow or pulling the trigger, but completely ignore what you shoot, how you shoot it and how many of them. These are usually the differences in bows/guns and I’m sure I missed something.
You clearly have some bias against ranged combat or haven’t thought about this nearly as deep as you should’ve because what you said is not even close to a fact.

Also you seem to be heavily infatuated with melee combat, and to romanticize it a lot, like referring to it like a dance, which there is nothing wrong with, but to me clearly shows your bias when you don’t even try to show the same courtesy to bows/guns

I think it’s more along the lines of him not realizing what specs actually are. They aren’t programs loaded into your character.

You don’t pick a spec and suddenly you magically know lots of new techniques and whatnots. I know the game sort of portrays it like that is the case, but it isn’t.

A specialization, is a choice you make towards what aspects you want to focus on.

For example, in the past, a RSV hunter was a regular hunter who had chosen to rely on enhanced ammunition as well as traps.
Ofc he would know how to aim the weapon and/or pull the trigger/arrow back. Ofc he knew that if he wanted to hit that perfect spot, he would do well to take the time to properly aim the weapon. Like that of a marksman.

The point is that, with the choice of RSV as a spec, you chose to rely on the enhanced ammunition and traps rather than the aiming/accuracy.

Just like how you choose to opt into different fighting styles/moves as a warrior or a Rogue. Or how a Warlock chooses to either rely more on powerful demons or on inflicting curses and other harmful debuffs onto opponents.

“There’s only one way to pull a trigger”

Yeah sure, but that’s not what it’s about for a hunter in WoW who uses a ranged weapon, when focusing on a particular specialization.

@Chapchap-pozzo-delleternità

you advocate for more physical ranged dps, but then try to remove one? You can’t blame me for being confused at this

I think he just wants more melee options and couldn’t in all honesty care less for ranged fantasies.

[Junglez-nagrand]

Explain your version of irony mate. Jesus…

[Sera-blackmoore (Sera)]

I really miss the mop / wod survival.
Of course it 's all personal preference - but i had the most fun on my hunter in that time as survival.

[Taigertraps-argent-dawn (Taigertraps)]

I bet people would not be as mad if mm didn’t suck so much

[Briz-zenedar]

@Taigertraps-argent-dawn

I bet people would not be as mad if mm didn’t suck so much

Maybe for some but…MM does not provide the RSV playstyle so, anything other than bringing that back, or an updated version of it, would not “fix” anything.

[Chapchap-pozzo-delleternità]

Oh no, you got snatched by those pesky foxes too briz!
Why am I alliance T.T.

[Briz-zenedar]

@Chapchap-pozzo-delleternità

Oh no, you got snatched by those pesky foxes too briz!

I did it for the animations of the Vulpera along with the fact that this mog looks perfect on them.

I never thought that the Hunter tier set from HFC in WoD would ever look good on any race, but I’ve now been proven wrong.
It’s basically(IMO) the perfect appearance of a trapper/woodsman type of character. The Xbow is a big bonus(can often be quite difficult to find one that suits the rest of your gear) as to how well it fits.

Now, GIVE ME MY RSV/Munitions Expert and Trapper theme back and I have the perfect combination!

[Annie-aggramar]

Sadly if you had any form of brain you’d realise I stopped playing hunter as a main due to having to play BM. I stopped playing my hunter the second they reworked it. Say it’s nostalgia all you want. My main hunter is still even at the level they did the rework because I instantly stopped playing the game.

I remember quite vividly playing hunter, then not the day the patch went out. Old survival>New.

[Orkuma-defias-brotherhood]

No. I like the option of a melee hunter even though I think it still needs work, especially on defensive and survivability… Strange that a survival hunter has such poor survivability compared to other specs. I’d not be against adding in a 4th spec though.