You can produce here a tons of text but nothing change facts. Like a some guy at beginning said. If someone who creating pug run for his key, have on list some meta classes and others, meta classes have bigger chance for being invited even with lower ilvl or rio points.
People don’t know you all what we have it’s your ilvl and rio history.
Already all what you can change it’s add similar to rio system into game no more. I have no idea why you want force ppl to bring some classes to their run. I struggled whole bfa to getting invited on my ele shammy for higher keys, but it’s not ppl fault that meta did same things as me only better and twice more.
Happens to me too when I attempt to do a key that isn’t mine above +12. Pugs are picky and there’s a ton of dps applicants showing up in groups. And that’s coming from a geared meta spec.
Mmm i personally dont see why i should take a rogue over a fury warrior for the next reasons, 1. I dont need shroud or as i am a tank i dont need tricks of the trade neither, either in a +10 key it is mandatory that every player has invis pots in his bag if needed, the only class i find mandatory is a shaman/mage because of BL/TW. Secondly, about tanks, in my opinion all tanks needs to have somehow the same dps, a tank that cant tank a group of.mobs dont exist they all can with cd’s, the problem is when the cd’s are on cd every tanks has those isseus.
Was there even a single run in the recent MDI that didn’t have DH tank? How bust is that? Good luck getting into +15 and above as anything else. Not even blaming people for asking for DH specifically because even if there are some classes that can take those hits or that can kite that much, certainly none keep the absurd dps while doing all of the above. I’m not asking for nerfing them, I’m asking for bringing the rest up to their level because right now, there is no resemblance of any kind of competition in tank meta. DHs are kings and the rest are chaff.
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Yeah VDH is a must-have right now. The only tank spec that doesn’t force me to use my defensive cooldowns for handling the aggro whenever I start to burst dps which can be 20k+ on 5 targets.
You should all take a step back and listen to yourself: Parses, RIO, META…what the hell happened to this game?
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1360 havoc here, stuck in group finder. guildies aren’t interested in pushing, communities are a joke and will obviously look for meta specs, irls already quit and here I am once again, stuck on a dead spec unable to progress. Got the KSM achievement/mount and considering taking a break till havoc buffs. Class is near unplayable right now.
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Funny thing is, that warriors aren’t trash anymore. However - community perception (and some classes not being AoE capped (wtf…)) - is the real boss battle!
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Me and my buddy did a Plaguefall +9 for fun last friday and invited random people because we didnt care about the key. It was the first key we had done without a hunter in like 2 weeks.
Eventually we killed the first boss and I, having not paid enough attention, said
“Dude is our hunter afk?”
to which my buddy replied
“Uh… we didnt bring a hunter?”
And I was so surprised by that, we both burst out laughing how stupid this meta is.
The sad thing is havoc is actually incredibly good in m+, at least on the dps side. Did a +14 SD a week ago with one, he had like 1200 rio and probably around 215 ilvl, that dude did more than 7k dps for the dungeon, brought darkness, only died once making our guardian druid /facepalm.
I would definitely NOT dismiss havocs from my keys, i promise you that.
One thing two remember is that the reasonable dps setup for m+ is 2 ranged/casters and 1 melee. You essentially have one spot which can be filled by other classes.
It is hard to get in and often the reason for decline can be in existence of melee in the group already.
I randomly apply and don’t hold my breath but somehow slowly progress but I am casual.
I can feel you ,but the issue is mostly on the community side and not classes .
Classes aren’t perfectly balance we all know that but still reaching + 15 on all it’s doable with all classes even atm .
If only there was a way you could start a group of your own and invite players of your choosing to it.
Ah well, guess you just can’t play. 
I don’t know why people are pretending that this is mostly a player issue and not a Blizzard issue.
The difference between a similarly geared fury warrior and a fire mage is not 0.5% even if the exact same person was playing them, it’s much much more than that. The meta can easily be fixed along with player perception if they buffed undertuned classes in the right way, by buffing their core abilities and giving them better scaling. A 3-5% flat buff isn’t gonna do absolutely anything.
When inviting random people, unless you’re doing extensive check ups on people which few want to bother with, you gotta take the information you can from a glance. You know which specs do better because they tend to do A LOT better, and that’s your step one decision making done.
An undertuned spec needs at least 5-10 ilvls over the FotM one plus 500-1k higher IO to make it worth it without taking player skill into account, which you can’t since you don’t know it. It’s pretty bad but there’s no fixing it on our end, on my 205 shadow priest the highest invite I can get is a +8.
Its not only meta, when it comes down handling bigger pulls, the groups will allways consist of Hunters, boomkins , fire mages, and preferably two in same group .
so that leaves 1 spot for melee in which most of the cases goes to UH DK.
how to solve it just increase the melee cleave cap to 8 as well.
have done all my keys to +13 and 2 till +14 of which i have done 1 this week.
for the rest i have been trying into groups everyday for 4 hours straight to only watch : full, decline
which results into only 1 vault slot this week… combine this with the poor loot distribution , the gearing proces and personal progress has come to a stop.
Not only it affects my playtime, you create a gap in Ilvl competing with the Meta classes.
Yes outlaw should do well in M+ but you constantly have to fight for that 1 melee spot and ilvl.
edit : the only item i could take was ilvl boost 226 shadowgrasp totem … so this week i not only didnt get upgrades because i have been waiting to join groupes the vault didnt gave me anything either.
this aint my kind of fun
So I have seen a lot of comments, not only under this post, but also under similar ones basically saying: add players you had a good run with.
Now here comes the funny part, I did but spoiler: it didnt work out at all 
I had a good run with one dude that even told me to add him not vice versa, he said he will be online the next day to run some more. Next day i came online to realize he has for some reason removed me from his friends list.
Then i could tell you about some further instances where i added people after the run and also proceeded to keep asking them if they wann run some, neither did any of said people ask me if I wanted to join, it was always me messaging them and the anwsers were always the same: Sorry im with friends/guildies already or sorry I dont have time now maybe later and so on, you get the point.
With that being said, its not just a magical solution to your pug problems if you add players after having a good run, that connection most likely wont hold for very long, or just wont work from the start, just like it was for me.
I find it interesting that outlaw is pretty much in all top timed keys and yet their representation and class perception is so bad.
Really shows how bad MDI is for the game.
couldnt agree more
simply get a friends and play or make own group
Community perception is so strong that it’s really making some people depressed.
I get many people whispering me abuse when I simply took the first 3 dps I saw without caring about class, because they assume I declined due to their class.
I even had some people get angry when I delisted a group because they considered it “declining”. My group just filled up so it automatically delisted, I didn’t decline anyone…
Many more whisper very sad things, sometimes long walls of text desperately trying to make me feel guilty so I’d take them. Sadly, only 3 dps fit in a party and sometimes guildies or friends already fill some spots. Meanwhile I sit there like “Why do I have to feel bad for only having 2 dps spots? 15 people applied within 30 seconds and it’s only a +8…”
Blizzard needs to start wrangling their gaggle of content creators a bit better or being more vocal that Youtube/Icyveins/wowhead aren’t the voice of the balancing team. Perhaps some set of rules, a creator program, anything? They rely on Wowhead too much, yet do zero monitoring on what Wowhead is telling people. Community perception is too strong in WoW imo, and it’s heavily reinforced by all the creators and guidewriters speaking in absolutes. It’s caused situations like me being shouted at for using Flash Concentration when everyone still believed Harmonious Apparatus was the best legendary for all situations… 
The funniest thing about that example is that all the simming was false from the start, too. Some people just really wanted to believe Apparatus would be the best, so they tailored their sims to make it look like it was. So, so many people genuinely believed Holy Priest cannot play anything above +5, and that killing Denathrius was mandatory to become a full-fledged healer as a priest (for the “correct” legendary memory).
…or they could just balance classes better. But then that would also put a lot of content creators out of business when people no longer look to them as absolute truths on what they’re “allowed” to play. 