Notice i did not say they are not viable. They are just dead when it comes to the meta, it’s the absolute worst teying to get into groups as warr or retri, not because of their performance, but because of the community mentality.
I’m not saying you’re not right. But imagine this:
You get a system of points very similar to rio implemented in game.
When you want to run a key, you have two options. Either put your own key, which queues you to a group, based on two parameters you select. ‘Rio’ and ilvl. You get to select a range, say between 1000-1200 rio and 210-220 ilvl. The tighter the ranges, the more you spend in queue. You may not select ‘minimum ilvl’ as you currently can, cause that just promoted being boosted or carried.
The matchmaking system is biased towards ensuring groups have BL and a CR.
Once the group is formed, you get teleported to the dungeon. The run starts.
Leaving gets you a 24 hour dungeon debuff. However, a 4/5 vote can end the key prematurely, no consequences to anyone except the key holder, who gets a -1.
Afk lads can get kicked, same 4/5 vote, dungeon ends with the -1 penalty on the key, same debuff for the afk dude.
At worst, this can be a supplemental system to the lfg. Sure groups will still form through invites, but some people will likely prefer this system, as it’s less of a hassle. For sure it beats applying to groups only to get declined for 30 minutes, and it hurts no one to have it.
Group Finder 2.0
- ilvl range: [___] to [___]
- # of M+ [___] to [___] completed is [___]
- number of melee required [__]
- number of range required [__]
- number of BL required [__]
- number of CR required [__]
We can cap, uncap, buff, nerf. Change, unchange. You name it. But you can’t destroy the “meta” term. The “meta” class and the non meta class might be 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 % different in dps numbers but for any meta slave. Thats enough. All they need to know. Meta - mage, druid hunter. They don’t care why they are the meta. Nerf-gut them to the ground and some hardcore m+ runner will come up with a new meta. And peps then will just blindly invite the new meta and decline every mage,druid,hunter they see. Even if they are 100% still viable. They don’t care. Random guy said in some random guide that its the “new meta” and thats good enough for them.
It also cuts out a huge chunk of the m+ challenge. For a successful run. YOu need not only peps who know how to press their buttons. But group comp as well. You can specify 2 mele or 2 ranged. Then you get 2 warriors or 2 spriests. Nothing agains them. But I rather take 1 warrior and 1 rogue or 1 spriest and 1 mage. And so forth.
All in all this leads to 1 main question: All this system for what? To bypass player interaction and “force” yourself into m+? No 2.1k arena guy would even look at me when I would ask if he wants to partner up with this clueless nonranked rogue haha. Yet I am not trying to figure out some “sneaky methods to smuggle myself into his arena fights”. M+ shouln’t be any different. Fight for you spot under the sun so to speak. Not demand Blizzard to act as your chauffeur and drive you into an m+.
Yes but let’s be fair, the comparison is not adequate. OP has rio, has ilvl, he is declined because of the class. His skills do not even come into question.
I get what you are saying about comps, but those come into play when pushing the cutting edge.
The mentality is that a vdh, rsham, hunter, mage, boomie will be more successful timing a +14 is there, it cannot be ignored. Nevermind the fact that a group with a guardian druid, a resto druid and 3 fury warrs can do it even faster because they are better players, even without BL.
The issue we’re trying to solve with this discussion is that good players who did everything right are getting passed over because of the class they play. And i feel for them. It’s what they enjoy and what they are best at, and they should not be forced to reroll FOTM in order to have a good time.
Well sadly I don’t have all 15s in time and the 4 i have left at +14 are the ones that prompted me in to this post. I literally have no 15s but instead 3 16s - 2 of which are pretty hard dungeons which were ALL my OWN keys haha. It’s tough, in fact 6/8 of my current keys timed between 14-16 were my own xD…
Also, not sure about the 6k dps friends invite comment. I don’t know if they just believe it was a lucky run from me or whatever but I have several, well a portfolio of screen caps that i Just save myself because honestly, I’ve been proud touching those numbers and out dpsing the other DPS in the group when they’ve been more powerful classes.
I mean, the only time I ve seen anything higher than 6k dps overall was from a +19 hunter. (6k6dps)
Also, people should realize that mage/hunters/boomies stuck at +15 are really bad =).
(Imagine doing less dps as a fire mage than a destro lock (my friend) while getting every power infusion from the healer XD)
That second part is so true lool… I had a fire mage other day in a group, was 1350 RIO, playing meteor in M+? Then left after 1 wipe in a +17 key hahahaha
and the reason people will take a vdh over a guardian 90% of the time is because a dh is able to kite almost any pack in this game, and also do good damage overall. Damage is a key factor in higher keys. If all does insane dmg + the tank it will make the damage the tank has to mitigate lower and less painful, meaning he can pull faster. Now there might be 10% good guardian druids that could do better than a lot of vdhs, but because the community has this perception of majority of vdhs doing insane aoe + having good defensives with fb leggo, they already know what to pick.
I agree with you on this post, its unfair to survival hunter even BM has a hardtime now/feral druids/ demo locks even destruction/ havoc DH, AND still i have played with many of them and they are not bad, its clearly that blizz have failed to balance the game, its with tanks also everyone wants Vengeance dh dunno why because believe me there are so less people that can play with vengeance DH effectifly, with my healer i rlly love gaurdian druids and warrior tanks there mitigation is so nice and the bear is a healing tank, only tank that should rlly need to be buffed right now are BDK. Every tank outside of DH need to be buffed a little immo.
on a Serious Note. i rerolled from Warrior in the end, being a DPS which doesnt bring Core Utility (shroud, BL) Makes life hard enough… making a DPS Which is deemed unwanted in the Community perception (Regardless of what u can actually do with the class) Is near impossible.
I think the problems Deeper then Meta Classers / FoTMs however, regardless of where some classes stand they’re still brought. and thats because Some classes were gifted with utility that is VERY highly demanded… and others didnt…
for a Warrior for example to replace a Rogue, it needs to do enough DPS the render the pack Skipping potiental of the Rogue Not needed or any faster
For a Shadow priest to replace a mage its DPS needs to be high enough to Equate the use of BL. which means classes that dont offer these things need to do so much more damage then these other classes just by the nature of things.
5 Slots, to fit so much utility into… it was never going to be a beloved outcome.
i disagree to a extent.
If classes were 100% Balanced. u’d take the DPS With utility tied to them… at a 0 DPS Loss across the board why wouldnt you take the extras.
And the gap between DPS in most cases isnt that large overall… its simply the case of Community perception pushs it sooo much wider, because players hear 1 thing and then Stick to it forever.
its a combination of how players interact with information + The Rise of FoTMs that bring the problems of today
In my opinion there are several problems at the moment making the meta picks even more rigid than in BfA.
Drums got nerfed, making mages and/or hunters even more desirable for a dps spot (like they needed it…).
2/3 new affixes are basically anti-melee.
Tank dps and threat is worse than in BfA. Some do better than others, but generally bursty melee dps causes me a lot of extra stress with aggro. My main is a VDH, although not Kyrian. Even with a hunter in the group to help with MD, our WW monk sometimes gives me tiny heart attacks when he is popping off and I see all the nameplates changing color from “you’re fine” to “RIP WW friend”.
The biggest reason warriors won’t get an invite imo, is they don’t really bring much to the group in terms of utility. No dispel for stuff like poison/diseases which are super scary in some dungeons. No combat res. No long lasting CC. No tools to help with skips. Nothing special to help the tank with kiting or supporting the healer.
Yes you can do good damage, but so can many other specs while also providing useful group utility. Basically, I haven’t done a single dungeon where I have thought “man I really wish we had a warrior for this”.
Personally I don’t really care much about only taking meta specs. In fact my group often pick specs we know get declined all the time. No super harsh criterias outside of them having acceptable gear and doing some +10 keys so they at least know how prideful works.
Blizzards whole idea of giving classes/specs very unique and important stuff like dispel/purge, bloodlust, physical/magic dmg debuff is doing more harm than good. Especially in a dungeon group where there are limited spots, it just excludes those who do not offer much except for damage. Maybe it’s boring to make those things more available via consumables or just giving them to more specs, but I’m 100% sure it would at least help a tiny bit with giving the unwanted specs a fair shot assuming damage tuning is in a good spot.
I forget who said this, but it was one of the streamers who compete in the MDI and he was asked about why rogues are taken even when their dmg is mediocre. His answer was simply because skipping with Shroud saved so much time in specific dungeons so even if another spec did 20% more dps they wouldn’t make up for it on the total timer.
This exactly. Also some classes just deal with m+ better and are (wait for it) more fun! I know. Fun. In a game. Sadly when classes are powerful they appear more fun to play. I know I feel a big exhausted pushing holy priest to it’s limits. To then make an alt shammy and find they have passives baked in with the power of priest legendarys. Another story!
