Also plays fotm dps for shuffle. Big surprise.
I donât care how he plays the game. Itâs his choice what to do. Itâs not against the terms of service. Itâs just he said multiple things over the years and they didnât happen so his predictions are rather miss than hit.
Explain how it dropped the amount of players if people didnât like shuffle wouldnât they just play 3v3?
3v3 can be coordinated but it still has the same problems shuffle has which is do damage and land cc to win itâs a class design problem which has been happening since dragonflight too many modifiers and aoe damage.
Where did I ever say mop would be bad PvP wise? And mop will be damp in the later seasons especially in 2v2 maybe you are targeting the wrong person here as I love mop as it was the expansion I played the most in wow but letâs be honest mop does not have an insane player base either and one of the main problems of that was the slow leveling and resilience mistakes they made on launch.
Also if mop was better than retail I would be playing it trust me but it has the same problems retail has with playing what is best and having to deal with insufferable people when wanting to play the game when friends are offline.
The point is that if its discussion about rated system being destroyed from splitting playerbase in multiple modes when the whole rated system is participation based becomes a problem.
And the other topic being that as shuffle is bad for healers and if arenas are also deflated meaning there will be no good way for healers to even play the game, leaving only the fotm dps as the sole role that has a way to play the game and they factually even have easier and gain more rating from shuffle by doing it, as shuffles design benefits fotm dps more than arena. There comes the point that âfotm dpsâ opinions of shuffle doesnt really matter as they are the only ones benefitting from the mode, ironically they would need healers for the mode however which are now choosing not to play the game and why we have these discussions, people just fail to understand that part.
Long time ago I bet around half a year ago I had a long discussion with you where you said MoP will be bad and worse than retail. How you got Rank 1 playing Rogue/Frost Mage/Moonkin and how MoP will be endless dampening games. Yet MoP games arenât really that dampening. MoP isnât perfect - instant CC is a bit much but still 3s there feel better than here. Nevertheless itâs something we already played so many people got their ratings and probably will go back to push at the end of season.
Because itâs easier to get rewards in shuffle. Simple⌠Many people just jumped into shuffle in S1 DF and the MMR system supports quick gains while in 3s you have to grind more.
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Not at all I said I got 2800 playing boomy/rogue/sub but the game is not launched on them patches itâs based off later patches where most of the classes were nerfed shadow priest been a good example deep wounds for warr etc.
Right now you can play the cc game on most comps and make it work as the season progresses and lock gets more stats the gameplay revolves around you basically trying to kill lock teams before you die to damage.
Itâs the first season of the expansion secondary stats shoot up a lot by s4 and before everyone got full conquest games actually lasted a long time especially because it was thunder in every game.
Donât forget in old wow expansions armor goes up each season and there is no compensation starting in shadowlands blizzard started soft resetting armor values each season to keep melees balanced in later seasons.
I find it funny how you complain about shuffle ruining retail playerbase when MOP has taken it to a new level by adding gladiator and r1 to 2V2 which if you play ele shaman you know you might aswell as never play that bracket because certain classes will be taking them spots for free.
Shuffle does not give a glad mount so what rewards are you actually getting exactly the elite achievement? Letâs stop blaming the game mode and start realising that some people donât want to socialise to play rated 3v3 especially if you are a higher rated player as most of the players in the pool you want to play with are degenerates and very obnoxious atleast in shuffle you only get them for 1 game.
Beautiful essay yet your prediction was still different. You exactly said it will be dampening fiesta and SP isnât bad. People underestimated it in tier lists itâs actually doing pretty good. And Deep Wounds are just bugged because as you know itâs not MoP on MoP engine but itâs MoP emulated on WoD engine like every other Classic expansion. Because of it unfortunately they have the same scripting issue as they always had. Resilience doesnât exist in WoD so WoD scripted Deep Wounds were broken in Classic Wrath, Classic Cata and again they are bugged in Classic MoP. Unfortunately Classic team doesnât have the same budget so it will take ages for them to fix it like it happened in Wrath. Anyway back to topic - essay doesnât change your prediction.
Then why do you play MMORPG genre? And since way not socialising is a good thing? In every team sport, game or even at work you need to socialise with people to achieve your goals.
And yes I mean rewards. If you consider that 15% players play PvP overall and that % of players reaching glad is very small youâll find out that some people just play for elite set, maybe enchant and thatâs it. For you they probably donât matter but they are inflating the ladders. Without them reaching anything would be way harder because ratings would be lowered. The problem is actually these players in majority play shuffle but also they quit because of shuffle. They see shuffle as their only chance to get them (because itâs easier) but the way shuffle works makes them not want to play it. Look also at overall WoW numbers they are dropping significantly. Iâm not talking pure PvP just WoW. Letâs face the truth WoW will never compete with any esports numbers. Average player who starts playing WoW doesnât do it because of arenas unless itâs a younger brother or sister of someone already playing. We want to make PvP approachable for average Andy who plays this game because he like the epic story and btw there is PvP he tried and enjoyed it. Without people like this PvP is imposible to maintain. You sweaty tryhards are not enough. Average player plays MMO because he is being goofy with his friends not because he wants to be a rank 1.
Deep wounds was buffed by like 145% near the end of mop as they were underperforming vs casters spriest was also nerfed around the same time what do you mean my prediction has not even happened yet in the later seasons of mop we will see more of a dampening playstyle the first seasons in OG mop were very fast a lot faster than they are now even remember the last season of mop lasted around 1 year there was multiple changes in that season.
If I want to play the mmorpg part of the game I will socialise over things in the open world like world PvP or it would be to do pve content world PvP is basically dead now and pve content does not have much socialisation unless you have a mythic + team or you are in a raiding guild.
Yes the entire genre is dying because it does not appeal to younger players and unfortunately people grow up the part about making friends online and having communities was great back in the early 2000s because it was new and we couldnât really focus too much on gameplay because our pcs/internet was terrible for example vanilla wow what does it offer gameplay wise next to nothing other than communities the gameplay is bland and boring.
Please try to remember kids 80-90s used to play Pac-Man and other arcade games you donât see the newer generation flocking to these games because there is better games with better gameplay on the market.
Also I feel like you are trying to put me into a group of players Iâm not even a part of I quit this game for 5 years coming back in shadowlands and play it mostly on weekends for fun even tho the current design of the game is not fun because of all the addons and rotations having multiple of modifiers/been aoe.
I want the game to have new players especially younger players so the game carries on but trying to force an outdated system on them is not going to work the newer generation want to play solo queue not be in a discord call with a group of 30+ year old men so we have to come to the conclusion that this is the way forward and you will have to let go of the past just like the generation before you did imagine if the OG wow players were trying to force everyone to play vanilla wow and remove arenas completely would you agree with that?
Also at the end of the day if what you are saying was really wanted then classic cata and classic mop should have taken over PvP but they both dropped off very fast the same as retail does after playing mop for 2 months I think the most fun I had on it was getting to max level and playing bgs with friends to gear up the first 2 weeks of arenas were great too but again completely ruined by the playerbase all rolling warriors.
Thatâs not necessarily true. Numbers show that Classic actually brings more new numbers than retail. Same goes for Classic Renescape that is bringing more and more players. If you also look at what young players play on Roblox it feels kinda MMO.
I agree genre has changed and MMOs of these days arenât MMOs of old days. Things that we wanted to get rid of (yes we because I also was against them at some point) were actually things that made this game great and enjoyable. It wasnât expansion or gameplay that made that time great but people we played with.
Also who rolled Warriors? New players or sweaty veterans like you who just want comfort? Current community is indeed the problem of PvP. Everyone keeps checking tiers lists made by the same people every season to follow them. Iâm pretty sure that there is bias because people making tier lists are playing against the same people who are better on certain specs. It always showed EU favoring Ele Shamans and R Druids while in NA you always had more SP and R Shaman. Iâm sure there are new comps and specs/builds that werenât yet discovered but instead of theorycrafting people prefer to blindly follow tier lists. Good example is Ele/Frost/R Druid on MoP. Nobody considered this spec until people who played it in WoD tried it and it was actually great. Same goes for Walking Dead - nobody played it in original MoP.
Classic players who played cata looked at tier lists private server players tryhards also picked warrior first the problem then became once casuals saw how strong they was in content they made it as their second alt or just quit because a lot of classes needed gear while warrior didnât.
I honestly donât think we have anything to argue about the mop you are playing now is not the original mop spriest was a lot stronger in OG mop it had damage nerfs in the second half of s15 while yes ele/frost/rdruid even with a hpriest has always been a strong comp in original s12 BM hunters and warriors were dominating and ele actually received buffs in later seasons and as to why ele/mage/rdruid works so well now itâs because lock has not yet got its secondary stats after that happens ele will be played with a lock mastery in mop works different for each class and some scale from it more than others so yes while itâs ok to say we are finding new things to play itâs because itâs on a patch private server players have played for years the meta is pretty much set in stone for the rest of the expansion.
Resto shaman comps will also get better in the later seasons and HLS will have a field day with mage/ele/rdruid
In the end there is a lot of viable comps in mop but there is in retail aswell but there has been a best comp in every expansion weakauras may help to play against certain setup comps but in s15 when lock has stats you are on a timer to land a kill or they just win the game.
Also to the part about classic RuneScape and wow bringing in new players could that be due to the fact that a lot of big streamers play on these games? Sodapoppin mitch etc so many streamers have helped classic a lot more than the actual gameplay has and they play it because itâs easy to interact with their viewers and talk to the chat while the new people itâs bringing in are viewers wanting to play with their favourite streamer.
I feel things like this shouldnt even need to be explained anymore at this point now that itâs soon 4 years from rated system broke from shuffles. Yet I still see it continuously needed to be explained when someone comes saying âoh yeah, well if shuffles are so bad then why everyone plays it thenâ type argument, and then it need to be explained yet again how wow rated system is participation based and how arena is almost dead and people play shuffle because its more inflated for the same rewards.
Itâs obvious issue in whole rated system if its majorly participation dependant for inflation and they come and drop two new rated modes on the mix which share everything else except glad mount with arenas, so obviously we do need some soloq to exist but we also need group gameplay to exist and it need to have same inflation than these soloqs, also this shuffle is not even the âsoloqâ what people asked for arena so we might aswell get rid of it if they are not going to do nothing else to fix this situation pvp got driven in that everyone has to spam shuffle/blitz or play deflated arena. Its obviously not sustainable situation also considering if shuffles are bad for healers so they obviously will boycott it leaving us in a situation where we dont have healers for any mode other than blitz soon.
We can argue endlessly what caused what. Deep Wounds are still bugged because they also ignore Resilience. Problem that happened in Wrath and Cata. My point wasnât about it though but about how community ruins and spoils fun also for themselves. People stopped thinking and just mindlessly copy tier lists. My point with Ele/Frost/R Druid being good was adapting to meta. This comp is good because of Warriors obviously because it deals better with them. Of course you overall should lose to L.S.D. and Godcomp.
Similarly Iâm pretty sure there are specs (in terms of talents) and comps that are good on retail but noone actually tried them as everyone copies the best without thinking. These MoP tryhards are the same retail tryhards. They check every tier list and just play S tier. 0 creativity or thinking. 0 theorycrafting. Not to mention that in original MoP we didnât use half of the addons people use now. Everyone tracks everything. However what MoP thought me is that people still like 3s. LFG is way more active there. People still like 3s but itâs just objectively harder there. Blizzard learned brutally in BFA and SL that fact people do something more doesnât mean they like it. Sometimes itâs just efficient.
Anyway I donât see the problem of merging 3s ladder and putting solo queue in it? Why? Because Iâm sure that top players will be able to get Glad solo anyway. Besides that solo shuffle doesnât give you glad anyway. If you merge both ladders you not only get faster queues but keep in mind that all these shufflers will be in 3s queues so most likely you can still get 2400 solo with your experience. Iâm pretty sure that some top streamers would make a challenge of glad solo. At the same time people can still play with friends and enjoy it. Imo Blizzard should also make it easier to add players after games to create bonds.
Letâs face the truth. Current state is horrible. You say you have no time to look for friends but you have it to sit for 10-40 min. in queue in Dornogal. Kinda same thing. As we see Blizzard removing addons and simplifying classes they see that we cannot sustain this game. They want to bring new players and itâs not only a PvP problem. Itâs the problem of WoW overall.
I donât want to play vs premades I got out of that mindset when I quit in legion and started playing games like overwatch everytime premades were allowed in games like that with solo queue the casual players suffer.
Ye more people would play 3v3 if they made it solo but comp matters more than skill in wow lets say I play an unholy dk and it puts me with another 2400 mmr group of solo players and I load in to see we are playing mage/unholy/rshaman and then some 1800 players who 3 stack are playing DH/boomy/rshaman who do you think wins itâs been proven multiple times in other games that a full pre-made will beat a Smurf and the rest of the team randoms even if the Smurf is 3-4 Elo above them and that skill expression is even worse in wow as you can carry a lot more in fps games.
If it was doable booster who plays in awc would just join a group of 1800 3v3 players and take them to gladiator but they donât they even duo and struggle to take some players to 2100 right now.
Ye I can play 3v3 whenever I want it does not even take long to find its just do I want to play vs meta comps every game? I enjoyed 3v3 in the past because it was random knowing what you would get each game felt different not repetitive shuffle has a problem with fotm specs but atleast you get some games where you get to play 2-3 different comps that each are fun in their own way.
When I had my beef with WoW in BFA I played a lot of Dota 2. And firstly they had 2 separate ratings for solo and team play. Of course solo was more prestigious because like here people complained that not everyone has a team. Also it created a weird dynamic that people who wanted to push their rank were not playing with friends but alone. Then Valve made the best change ever. They merged MMR (Dota 2 MMR is equal to our rating). What happened? You could play solo and then you met teams full of solo players of queue as a team so you were most likely to meet other teams. Not only it inflated ladder but made queues shorter. So you could push either way. It also helped when they added guilds.
Coordinated play is always the best. I think thatâs the best part of playing team games when you coordinate goes etc. Playing TWW as Unholy is pretty fun. Especially when the perfect blender with WW lands. And playing against the same thing. Itâs not that people in shuffle donât play only few strongest specs. Also if you reach certain ratings you play a lot against the same people anyway.
Again thatâs fine and all but are you going to make wow PvP free to play and start at max level with items already on the character because itâs not going to ever have enough casual players for a system like that to work are we going to inflate the ladder so much that most premades play way above the gladiator range? Most solo queue games you can achieve the highest rank even top 500 as a solo queue player while premades are mostly used for esports tournaments.
I do understand what you are saying but itâs about time we stop treating wow like an esports and more like a game you can just play if you choose to premades thatâs fine but it should not be part of the solo queue it should be against other premades its an mmo yes that does not mean you have to no life the game and been in a certain circle of people to achieve the top ranks.
The integrity of the game has always been like this in wow and itâs what threw away most of the casuals all the wintrading in rbgs boosting in shadowlands because pve players needed to play to get gear we even have wintrading in shuffle and blitz at the minute and itâs by the same people who have been doing it for years.
Ye it is but like I say in other games itâs a tryhard way to play games that for example in most esports games coordinated gameplay as a team is taken to be played outside of the ladder in tournaments made by the player base or the game developer if a player wants to play like that sure but why should everyone else when they just finished work and want to play a few games on equal footing and they keep facing 3 nerds who have played the game for 10 hours each day of the week.
Biggest example is things like warzone when the tournament players would trio or quad stack in a lobby and just wipe it for 10 hours a day and then play in tournaments it completely ruined the game because then everyone wanted to be a streamer or good at the game going as far to cheat their way to it with aimbots and any other advantage they can get while the casual players suffer.
Letâs just say if you add solo queue to 3v3 ladder and they can meet premades you will never be able to achieve the top rewards anyway and casuals will quit.
I believe there was some stats that showed around 10-15k pvp players play daily in EU in arena vs Dota 2 having 600-800k a day
I donât know a single competitive game where itâs not possible to queue ranked as a team and where youâd have separate team rating than solo. Actually the only game that comes to my mind now is Age of Empires II: DE. Every single competitive game I played had merged single and team brackets.
I havenât seen casuals quiting Dota, League, CS:GO or Valorant because of it so I donât know where do you take this assumption from. At the moment you have 5 different ratings on one char. And even more if you consider different specs.
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Overwatch when it was at its peak stopped allowing stacks to play over masters you was allowed groups of 6 untill masters or GM and then it was duo only and you would rarely play vs solo players it would fill a 2 stack and 4 stack before it brought any solo players in.
Csgo is not wow tho again lots of people have quit csgo but that game is not like wow PvP you can 1v6 people in csgo you cant do that in wow.
Csgo community has blatant cheaters and people still donât quit knowing the integrity of the game is ruined and most of the playerbase is Eastern European too itâs an easy game to get into you just download and play.
You can also do solo team wipes in league and dota where as on wow you dont have that solo impact.
Overwatch isnât wow either so whatâs the point? And Overwatch was never peak esport.
Even if you compare to other MMOs SWTOR allow to queue solo or in party for 4v4 arenas.
Isnât it what I actually thought is right? Merge ladder until it reaches past glad and then thing of a game mode that will be fair and prevent wintrading. I gave example of highest rated players picking their teams. It doesnât have to be the same but any other solution but till letâs say 2500-2600 merge the ladder. Make premades prioritize premades and solo players prioritizing solo players until itâs late at night when there arenât enough of each and queue will be way shorter. Also healer wonât be locked for 6 games so average waiting time will be shorter. I donât know when do you play but if you play 6 PM - 1 AM you should be at peak participation so you shouldnât meet any stack unless you push extremely fast in first week or two. Maybe make it like shuffle past 2500 so compositions donât matter that much.
Just make it better for average Joe who plays this game and doesnât enjoy waiting 40 min. or healing. Also higher participation ladder = bigger rating inflation = easier to reach rewards = more players happy.
Average player doesnât aim for rank 1 and rank 1 players problems donât affect him.
I believe they should remove RBGs as well and think of a similar system for Blitz allowing people to queue up to 4 or 5 players but then their matchmaking should prioritize other team with stack. Classic RBGs are pretty much dead now and 8vs8 format works well. Well allow even to queue as 8 players but then make them play against another stack of 8 until there is completely noone else to queue against. Having 7 different rating brackets on a single character is mental. It should be reduced to 3 brackets - 2s, 3s, RBGs that includes Blitz. Thatâs it.
And then as you said if someone got glad and wants to compete for Rank 1 he has a new game mode that works like shuffle. Problem solved.
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