I have been playing with my warlock again with the introduction of Shadowlands after a lot of time. After a lot of testing, playing and researching I can safely say that destruction warlocks are left behind to run mythics. Any of the warlock specs are not ideal with destruction being left in the worst status. Destruction warlocks rely purely on shards and this translates to having proper dps while infernal is summoned. While infernal is summoned it helps in the shards generation and you are able to do some dps comparable to other classes (still not the top dps but it’s ok). Being only DPS class we should have some benefits against hybrid classes, something that’s far away from reality. This makes it almost impossible to be invited in any mythic over 10+. The DPS has to be definitely buffed by a lot. Apart from the dps part we have zero mobility and we don’t bring any truly useful party buffs/spells to make us useful (and get more chances for invites). Yes we do have HS and SS but still non of them looks enough attractive to be accepted in groups.
Again, as an only DPS class we need similar dps and special group abilities like hunters and mages. Seriously, there aren’t many areas to improve what I am currently doing to improve the DPS and it lacks by far compared to any other DPS class and also against the affl and demo.
If there’s any other person here who has seen how destruction warlocks perform in 10+ mythics when compared to other classes equally geared he knows what I am talking about.
Please consider this blizzard.
The other big problem is when kiting is so prevelant, rain of fire becomes so useless and Destruction’s AOE just falls off a cliff.
I do think Warlock as a whole needs something extra, probably in the mob control camp, to make them more valuable in M+. I’ve been wanting to play my Warlock more, but as soon as I step off my Hunter the hole left by Binding Shot & Tar Trap is so sorely felt.
Destro is not even a shadow of its former self. Spec got gutted, stripped, and beaten. Bring back MoP’s destro.
Destro pumps hard if played correctly.
Feel free to upload current logs and I bet i can tell you at least half a dozen big mistakes you’re making, outside of using a wrong legendary and suboptimal talents.
This is only part of the conversation. The OP clearly states our toolkit is trash compared to Boomie and Fire Mage which is true.
If you compare our utility to Boomie and Mage, our utility-toolkit is lackluster. But every class looks bad compared to these two.
All I read is yet another thread “I’m not a Mage, I never get invited, warlock bad, I play it almost flawlessly”
Next thing i see is that in two m+ runs that got logged one month ago, he didnt use shadowfury once, played only with the imp, used his infernal (with Reign of Chaos) 5-6 times in both 30 minutes runs and used cataclysm and havoc scarecly
Yet there’s supposed to be not many ways he could improve.
Would the OP suddenly use use root, vortex, decourse, soothe, dragonsbreath, alter time, timewarp, nova or ring if he played boomie or mage?
Would the OP suddenly manage to use combust every minute playing a mage?
Utility is not a factor when it’s not being utilized, which usually is the case in your average +10 pug. Mage uncapped gigaburst aoe damage with combust doesn’t help you in your average +10 pug where you pull pack by pack.
It’s just the easy way out to blame everything on the meta.
And by the way, not everytime you get declined it’s because the group only invites fotm speccs.
I disagree.
Hunters have good utility too. Trap, BL pet, soaking with turtle.
DHs have decent utility too. Darkness for the tank, imprison, AoE stun and slow, invis reveal.
I didn’t say warlocks and other classes other than boomies or mages have no utility.
Warlock has decent utility too compared to Hunter and DH’s for example.
Boomie especially is the outlier, able to counter many affixes by themselves with vortex, massroot, typhoon and treants in addition to big offheals for high prides with heart of the wild.
What utility does a Warlock bring other than Healthstones that would make people pick you instead of Hunter, DH, Mage and/or Boomies?
My point is, you can swap this around to
"What utility does Hunter bring other than traps that would make people pick you instead of Warlock, DH, Mage and/or Boomies?
Locks bring gatewayskips, Curse for Pride, really good self sustain with coil/healthstones, AoE stun, they bring purge and really good single target / priority Damage.
They can also Banish/Fear and have a dispell with the imp.
And again, it’s not like every group in the game that does a 14 key only runs with a fotm MDI setup.
If you get declined it isn’t because you’re playing a warlock and their utility isn’t great compared to boomkin, but because people have either bad experiences with other warlocks, or there’s a guy with a higher rio score and higher item level as you in the queue.
No you can’t turn this around.
Hunters, DHs, Mages and Boomies bring unique utilies that are way more useful than what Warlock brings as you mentioned. Hence the reason people WILL pick these classes over Warlock. Warlock has absolutely no uniqueness to M+ that will make people pick it over these other classes.
Damage wise as well we are not going to out DPS a Hunter or Fire Mage or Boomy that knows his class.
You can turn this around ONLY if its the Warlock itself you replace in the sentence.
And yeah, sure not everyone runs with a fotm MDI setup but the fact that my Warlock with 1.1k rio and 222 ilvl takes 45 minutes to find a group for 13-14 keys while my 207-8 ilvl Mage takes 10 minutes to find a group for 9-10+ keys speak volumes.
in a setup with a DH tank, a boomie and a mage, Hunters don’t bring any more unique utility compared to locks, quite the contrary… Boomie and mage have all basics covered.
I wouldn’t fault anybody for picking hunter over a warlock tho, since hunters can easily perform on a decent level and the chance the warlock performs decent is slim.
I’ve had many bad experiences with Locks when i pug on my Shadow Priest.
Dude, if you see so many posts about warlocks complaining, then yes, maybe there’s a problem. Check people who do actual calculations and tests in mythics based on FACTS and MATHS and if you have the basic maths knowledge you will understand what I am talking about. It’s not only AOE, it is single target lack of DPS in the destruction warlock. Your statement “I wanna be a mage” is the most non sense message I have read in a long time. Destruction warlock has some similarities in game play…because blizzard has designed this spec, unless you want to question Blizzard and tell them they are wrong. They lack in dps mate, like it or not and this is the response me and other warlocks get when we run mythics. When I am able to run 10+ mythics with my guild I always lack with similarly geared DPS classes. This is not just me, there are 34324233 posts mentioning this, unless we are 34324233 and you are the only person on earth who knows how to play destruction what can I say? Maybe blizzard created the warlock class to be played by one person?
We do lack in DPS and we do lack in mobility. Mobility doesn’t only mean CC, mentioning fear in a mythics for CC for the 90% of the cases is not applicable, so obviously you either have no clue how to run mythics or you are not using it. Banish is again not applicable, rarely possible to be used. Mobility also means do dmg on the move, the only spell we have is conflagrate which doesn’t do any actual damage but also has a CD.
Hunters and mages apart from the mobility bring top dps and bloodlust since you mentioned them. This IS a reason not to take you to a mythic run over 10+
last but not least, if you have had experiences with a few bad warlocks it doesn’t mean that this applies to everyone. I DO PLAY AS INTENDED in mythics and yet lack in DPS compared to all pure DPS classes(and not only pure DPS). I am very sorry to tell you that we are thousands having issues and you are just one who says something and sounds very random when there are people who dedicate hours and publish actual results. I am not used in having an opinion based on some experience, I only have an opinion when I can have actual results with facts.
I don’t deny that there is a problem in community perception of warlocks and in the fact that mage, boomie and hunter are currently overtuned in terms of damage and utility in an m+ environment. Therefore they do struggle getting invited into M+, just like many other DPS Speccs.
How do you make “calculations” for M+? especially m+ 11?
i never stated that, maybe I didn’t make it clear.
I stated that “if you had the utility a mage or a boomkin brings, you wouldn’t be using it, since you’re using the imp in dungeons and never used shadowfury at all in your 2 logged runs”.
I mean, you can tell that to yourself as long as you wish, but i stated above that after looking at your logs it is a FACT you do NOT “play as intended”. I’d be more than happy to help you improve, if you want to.
Can you elaborate on who those players are who “publish actual results” for m+ 10 keys? And what I said exactly that sounds “very random”?
Bottom line:
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Warlock isn’t S tier.
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There are many Warlock players, especially affliction, that don’t know how to perfom in m+.
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The people complaining are mostly far away from playing well
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Checking logs, playing better would often improve their damage more than a flat 20% damage buff and the ability to cast incinerate on the move.
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Locks struggle to get into Pugs because they dont bring the utility / damage a good Mage or Boomie delievers and don’t have a good reputation.
This. I sometimes playing it in M+ and it blasts. Cinders with Roaring Blaze and Dreamweaver soulbind can see 8 Chaosbolts cast in a Havoc window. That’s a lot of damage. Destruction can easily pump out more than enough damage to blast through 15+
LOL
Yeah, a little. It’s not really that big of a deal in M+
This can be used in Plaguefall effectively
It should be one your highest damaging spells in M+
I’m willing to bet that you’re trying to play Wilfred’s Inferno build in PUG’s, in which case you will be performing terribly.
Yeah… just checked your M+ logs and you’re using a terrible legendary and questionable talents. Yet here you are saying the spec sucks because you’re not playing it to its full potential.
It’s this kind of thing that contributes further to the class/spec having such a bad reputation. People come in and read this kind of thing in the forums, then take it as fact.
Hello Atriohm
I recently got fed up with aff playstyle in m+ and wanted to give destru a serious try.
Which build would you recommend for pugs? Asking since I been using the wilfreds infernal build…
Cinders with Roaring Blaze is solid in single target and multi target. It feels smoother to play and offers an extra, albeit small bit of mobility.
Wilfred’s Inferno build is also really good though, if your tank can play around your CD’s.
Cinders it is. Haha. Good luck getting a pug tank pull around a warlock. 
There is also the fact we have not mentioned is different Covenants. I’m not sure if Destro performs better as NF but i chose to go with the Necrolords and soulbinds and conduits don’t feel good for the class.