why does this guy keep saying they are taking away40 man bwl aq and naxx when they have only stated mc is 20 man? cant he read?
5 Likes
Because they said they wont change 40 man raids and already ruined MC?
Do you trust them to not ruin the rest when all those retail ppl keep spamming about easy facerolls and to remove our 40 man fun from Classic?
i dont see whats more fun about a 40 man than a 20 man but what ever, 40 man just more of drag to organise and 30% of the raid gets carried by the other 70%
6 Likes
Its the whole fun you have to take weaker ppl with you and organize them its not about individual performance but about the whole guild clearing the raid.
Like 10 man raid is like some small elite troop âbehind enemy lineâ while 40 man raid is like marching an army to battle. Totally different, like WSG and AV you dont see the difference?
Also nostalgic moments happen in 40 man its different social attitude in retail mythic probably a hunter pullin boss while raidleader is talkin would create epic drama and whatever, in Classic its maybe short epic drama from raidleader and epic laughing moment for the rest.
Its not so sweaty tryhard but more room for jokes and fun in Classic but its not fun with small 10 man groups where only challenge like in BFD is to âparse moarâ
i duno im enjoying the 10 mans, each to their own.
sounds like your just trying to relive 2004/5 to me, time to move on.
6 Likes
Its ok as level up raids and they will give Karazhan crypts too. But why mess with 40 man raids? Is it not enough U get almost same gear in 20 mans?
Also the difference is like in real life. An elite commando unit can be the best ever but they will not win a war if they dont teach the 100 000 casual army what to do.
Same with the raid 40 man raid wont go well if just 10 people do the right stuff and its how it becomes totally different experience. An experience that is non existent in any other WoW version. So why take it away from us?
well its not, mc going 20 the rest are staying 40, did you even read the post?
1 Like
I read it and they ruined MC that they promised to not ruin before SoD started. So how do I trust them they wont kill off the rest and I am running many guildteams as a joke since will never recieve the stuff I wait for?
Blizz need feedback so they do not change BWL and keep it 40 man. And the 20 mans gonna be ZG, AQ20 and the new Karazhan raid and they will be optional extra raids in my guild free to sign up for (I will do them ofc to supplement the gear for main raid and since I like all content).
But they said they will give items to the 20 mans that are almost on level with 40 man raids but I really hope they keep them at least 1 % worse or different. So that unique items will be unique from 40 man so not everyone is running with 100 % same gear as it is now with Gnomereagan and as it was with BFD (that was not a raid it was a free looting it was easier than doing UBRS in Classic with overgeared people).
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Everyone is gonna wear the same gear anyway like that is some kind of an argument. Everyone wears the same pre bis. everyone wears the same BiS. Is kinda an irrelevant argument.
Difficulty in classic? xD especially in MC what are you coordinating exactly? a tank swap? the only coordinating you have to do is making sure there schedules line up outside of the game so that they can actually raid at the designated time/day. Pretty sure gnomer has more mechs than the entirety of MC.
MC wonât be a wipefest unless you are playing with people that have their monitor turned off and their cat ripped out half the keys from their keyboard.
Social aspect? 40 people all talking over each other during raid so the leader tells them to stop talking and clear comms and then its basically just the GM/RL and 1-2 people talking anyway? this is what most peoples experience will be.
You had fresh again already it was called SoM and look how many people ended up sticking around there and playing it through till the end⌠Did you ever think âThe classic playerbaseâ isnât blizzards sole intended target audience with SoD? That they want their game to be successful and possibly reach a wider range of people? Rather than only cater to the same small number of people that are the consistent âclassicâ playerbase.
You make it out like molten core wouldnât be a literal joke with how much damage players are doing now compared to era. People killed Rag with 0 challenge in rerelease of classic with 0 gear and rushing to 60 asap. Imagine 40 people with runes going into MC the place would literally be a snoozefest consisting of smacking target dummies and melting the boss in 30 seconds.
Is getting boring hearing the same BS about âRetail players are ruining my gameâ like they have any agency over what the SoD development team actually do in terms of changing or development to their game. You had no changes nostalgia in its purest form already. Let the devs try and do something with the game that doesnât just cater to the same audience from 2019 that complained they didnât want any changes when this game mode is literally advertised as having changes from the start. You knew what you were signing up for. If you were expecting this to be a âVanilla Freshâ experience again you are only gonna be disappointed.
Them making MC a 20man raid when it would more than likely be able to be killed with 20 people regardless isnât the end of the world that you are making it out to be.
Blizzard want more people to play their game than just the classic playerbase bud.
8 Likes
cant stand this entitlement, why should 40 man raids that have the same difficulty as 20 mans have better gear than the 20 man raids? there is zero logic to that and it will just divide the player base, you cant talk to sense to the op, most elitist ideology ever.
3 Likes
I want to prevent them from ruining the rest, and in MC in Classic I had people drown in lava or edited by moderator half instance and it was real challenge to kill all that trash and not wipe completely 
In BWL it gets more fun like Firemaw roasting the raid not hiding behind the wall etc. or Razorgore and people having to do stuff in groups and if some fail the whole stuff begin to fail its fun.
Also you were probably in some tryhard guild where people get kicked for epic fails instead of it being the laughing stuff.
BTW they advertised no changes to 40 man endgame since many people love it and look MC is changed. Its why I write here so nothing else is changed.
And BTW not everyone and their mom had Thunderfury on Gehennas or T3 etc itd. People were not looking the same. And not everyone had High Warlord too since it required a gurgle in the BG and if ppl skipped they deranked.
@Mardigan: Because in 20 man raid you dont need to take 20 weaker players with you to clear it. Like in Cata you got same loot for 10 man HC and all did that instead of 25 man since they did not need the âother playersâ. And it became moar and moar a tryhard elitist stuff instead of fun social wipefiesta with unique loot. Where people are excited what dropped.
Everyone will do the 20 mans eitherway since its nothing else to do in game so why not do ZG, AQ20 and new Karazhan. I did ZG and AQ20 even when it had no gear for me with guildies so they got gear for the big raid.
Also how can you get same gear for defeating Hakkar a faceroll and for defeating 4 horsemen with 40 people. It would have to be retail mythic difficulty for the 20 man Karazhan if its gonna drop same stuff as naxx (lets hope it looks different at least if its same quality) since you skip on having 20 weaker players in your raid.
whats stopping you taking 40 strong players to the 40 man raid instead of 20 strong players and 20 weak players? most pointless statement ever.
ZG/AQ 20 were catch up raids in vanilla/2019 - you are just completely missing the point, if the difficulty of 20 mans are charged and are the same as 40 mans, rewards should be the same, everyoneâs happy then and you can go run bwl for the 500th time, have fun in your 40 man raid, hell i might even pug one, i really dont care, as long as there an option to gear from either raid size and its even, cant see what all the crying is for, its a game, a seasonal game, have funâŚ
3 Likes
A random body pull or people dying in the lava can happen regardless. This happens in 5mans. It isnât something specific to 40man raiding that seperates it into a 40man only experience. people been dying in lava in RFC at level 11. And while that may be your idea of a good time, 39 other people might not enjoy wiping to random hunter pet pull etc, losing all their consumes, having to run back, spending 5min running to rag and rebuffing etc etc. It goes both ways ideas of fun are subjective.
I didnât play in a sweaty guild just played with people that were competent and actually knew what their class did.
Not everyone will have thunderfury in SoD either its called RNG. doesnât matter on the raid size if the binding doesnt drop. Everyone and their mom will have r14 gear though. at this rate we will be rank 9 by the time we have level 60 phase, not being able to derank anymore r14 isnât gonna be anything special or some prestigious feat we are literally just gonna be waiting for whenever blizzard allow r14 gear probably around AQ release if i were to guess, to be able to get the last few ranks. it isnât gonna be months of grind anymore.
They said they wouldnât remove 40 man raids. They never said anything about no changes to them. And they didnât lie either. MC isnât going anywhere.
3 Likes
40 man raids are for Boomers, and 20er raid for âcoolersâ people
i dont know, i would like to see if the raid is a only 20 man raid or 25
40 is much more stressful to organize and you are dependent on too many people, which leads to more problems in later phases
2 Likes
Than maybe donât try organize stuff clearly above your grade of competence. Leave leading to true leaders who understand the degree of complexity of 40 man raids.
Tldr: not every random Joe can roll a lvl 1 chr and 1.5 years later clear Naxx 40 as a GM or Officer of his guild.
1 Like
Its the whole point to build a guild that can do the 40 man raid and need everyone in it not like âretail 10 man guildsâ who just have random tryhards and kick the weakest link to replace with a new random.
Also Naxx in wotlk was a faceroll because its was not 40 man in Classic its something completely different. And in 5 man no one cares about random body pull its something different with 40 people and the epic stuff that follows
Also its gonna be 2x more Thunderfury because raids are 20 man and not 40 man at least pugs wont GDKP it since its banned.
MC is removed as 40 man raid so the idea of the posts are so they dont do the same to BWL, AQ40 and Naxx.
You make it out like leading a 40man raid is the equivalent of leading troops into battle lmao. âClear comms, okay bobby you are gonna taunt here after this debuff goes out, we need 4 melee to make sure they cycle through kicks, mages make sure you press decurse okay? oh jimmy got the debuff make sure you heal jimmy.â
This aint rocket science chief. The hardest part of leading a 40man raid is getting 40 gamer dads that arent working different shifts to be able to align for them to be able to actually raid on a night their 5 kids are in bed at raid start time. Back in 2004 it wasnât as big of a deal the average age of the classic player base wasnât 30+, People aged 30+ generally have responsibilities/family they are tied to outside of the game that are far more important and very sporadic on their needs and wants that keeping a schedule that is reliable and works for 40 people isnât the easiest thing to do.
And i say this as someone with no child responsibility and pretty reliable free time to be able to fit into a schedule for 40mans.
TL:DR every random joe who actually stays around for 1.5 years will clear naxx as a raider providing they play with their keyboard plugged in and have an IQ higher than what you can find on a thermostat. If you donât clear it in your original guild and are a good player you will clear it in another. WoW has always worked this way.
5 Likes
They clear naxx in hardcore era with non optimal gear, without full pre bis from the previous raid. In basically no time too in order to be âWorld Firstâ. there was no 1.5 year wait. If your players are competent the content is trivial anyway. Classic isnât Difficult if your players actually know how to play the game. You donât need to be a mythic raider to clear any content in classic. Just know your rotation and press your 5 buttons good and you can clear the content.
Unless you are the weakest link, you will have no problem in this version of the game. Regardless if the raid is 40man or 20.
The skill floor and ceiling in this game arenât miles away from each other, you can go from being bad at the game to good enough to clear any of the content by watching a video on what your class rotation actually is.
4 Likes
Maybe u should grind some âcompetenceâ when it comes to reading, my English isnt the best, but it should be clear, what i meant learn how to read, or stop Cherry picking!!!
here for you again
THE PROBLEM about 40 Sized Raids isnt the competence of Leading them, its because people start quiting/ leaving the game in later Phases (which is normal)
But itâs clear to see that youâve never run a guild with 40 people and spreadsheets, you are always the one guy, who takes the spot, and think everything is self-evident âi only farm consumeables, get the worldbuff and im doneâ
you dont even understand the smallest percentage of what you write
Have nothing to do, with i have said but okay
to make it clear, Many guilds collapse when the hype goes down because it´s hard to find 40 Peoples where are permanently interested in raiding
u dont know how hard, and time consumeing it is to run a 40 man raid for more than 1-2 Phases
it´s way better to have a 20/25 man sized raid, compared to a 40 man raid. solely from organizational techniques in the later phase. like the end of bwl/ start with aq40
but i think u wont understand what it means to lead a raid from mc until naxx
ofc theres some guild full with premades, especially from the classic private server who dont have this problem, but the percentage is so small, its not worth to count them.
exactly And if you have a new guild that consists of players recruited from the forum and world chat, there is a high chance that people will quit over the time, and the chance in a 40 man sized raid is just higher compared to an 20 man raid
also to manage the spreadsheet for 20 peoples instead of 40 is less time consuming and easier
it´s just so much more time consuming to lead a raid with 40 peoples compared to an 20
And the chances of a guild going under because of this are higher
Do you really believe what you are writing?
Naxx in wotlk was not faceroll because it wasnt a 40 man raid, it was faceroll, because of many mathematical reasons
First of all, the relationship to HP and damage was different, Bosses had far too little life
then Blizz wanted to make a casual experience beginner raid for new players, and peoples who want to give âraiding a tryâ but werenât that good
they also removed some mechanics of the bosses
and a classic raid with classes that have better talents and spells compared to the classic classes , Hmm, what would happen?
nobody talks about 5 man instance grps
ehhh. couldnt care less, People will still buy gold to buy 100 arcane crystals, mc in normal classic 2019 was so easy, and i have seen sooooooo many peoples with it,
Itâs no longer vanilla where only 2% of the guilds have seen the inside of Molten Core
The main difficulty of a raid to get the best items is Mythic, and u still need 25 Peoples for it.
you need it even more in later patches because many people quit especially when sod stays this bad
to make it a 25 man raid would be perfect
This also can Happen in a 40 mann raid if you Join a sweaty tryhard speedrun guild
we have a holy priest who is doing 50 Hp´s in the Gnome raid, and we havent kicked him. because we still clear the raid without any problems, and in a 20-25 Man sized raids, it´s still easy to carry people like this.
4 Likes
The 40 man raid is Classic exclusive and it should stay that way instead of removing the special element of Classic. When we go over to TBC SoD then you will for sure try to ruin dungeon attunements if not ruin 25 man raids.
And then U will cry its nothing to do in game we killed the game by removing quests and insts to do in order to get inside the raidâŚ