It’s reasonable to assume we’ll be having cata classic in about 2 years time.
Well considering the nochanges and private vanilla community is what made blizzard roll out classic… Based on the fact alot of people felt that the social aspect has long evaporated because of certain tools in the game. Before classic we (the community in general) said we wanted it no changes… Well and even before TBC was announced there were some people crying for retail functions… And now some people(retail andies and wrath babies) have been pretty vocal saying they want RDF and same time: ‘noo raidfinder is badd! RDF good’… So I’m betting there will be also alot of people shouting that ‘the community want LFR’ in 1-2 years time.
When they added raid-finder they removed the exclusivity and the achievement of seeing the story play out in real time in your eyes, it really devalued raiding as far as it ties to the story, because prior to raid finder it was always a big collective effort to earn the opportunity to see the big bad endboss and defeat it.
That’s not the same as the dungeon finder which simply puts players together to do casual content that they have probably also ran previously in organised group at the same difficulty level. Raid Finder doesn’t just put players together, it gives you a “story mode” easy version of the game with (at least in 4.3) very powerful rewards.
It’s not comparable. That said, raid finder in Cataclysm as a new feature in 4.3 was widely criticized, poorly implemented (group loot + tradeable loot) and unfortunately wildly popular in spite of that. If you bring out Cataclysm, it’s a big change to not have raid finder in 4.3.
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Ask for purge/dispel in raidchat
I know its a hard concept to grasp, but there are players that actually want to repaly old expansion as they were and not a new vanilla+retail+x(any expansion) hybrid when it comes to features/game design.
The main reasoning for classic wow wasnt to have vanilla+ with a mix or retail features in it, but to have old expansions with original experiences available again outside of private servers.
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Hmm I do agree with that… But I also support the classic spirit. So if there are some small things blizz needa to adjust to protect the community from itself then, even tho my faith in them is almost gone, I do have to trust them for that.
Personally I’m neutral on the LFD but am heavily against the LFR. I really enjoyed the LFD system back in the day but I also have to admit that it was the very infant start of the slippery slope blizzard went down
Prove me wrong: In 1,5 years people will make up stupid reasons why the Raidfinder shouldn’t have been implemented in original Cata, when the question is if it should be implemented in Cata Classic, just like they do with the RDF now.
If you want to talk about if a tool should be implemented or not, you first have to leave the nostalgia behind. Because you can’t trust your memory especially not if it’s 10 years old. People just remember what they want to remember. And a lot of the stuff they think they remember either didn’t happen at all or happened completely different or at a different time.
Plus the prerequisites today are different, so even if you would remember perfectly how the feature influenced the game back then, you can’t assume the tool to influence the game in the same way today.
The community completely changed and the way people play the game completely changed. Any argument, that doesn’t consider those changes and is based only on memory is worthless.
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So, we should just keep floating towards LFR and retailisation then? #NoChanges will soon hit the wall when changes made 13 years ago in Retail will start pushing Classic players away from the project. Maybe there is no point in prooving that other changes are needed and nothing can be changed, because people would like to hit their head against wall, that being the end of Wrath, over and over again in SoMs to come?
Personally I think that flexible raids ( modern normals) difficulty invented in end of MoP for SoO is a perfect replacement for LFR.
If you are referring to my post, then I am not saying we should add LFR. I always was against LFR myself, but I after playing FF XIV I am not so sure anymore if LFR is as bad as people make it out to be. I haven’t made up my mind yet.
All I say is, that arguments, that are just based on memory and completely ignore the fact, that the community and the way the game is played, is completely different in TBC Classic than in TBC, are worthless. If you want to talk about if a feature should be implemented or not, forget about your nostalgia, else you are missing the whole point of the conversation.
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It is true that players had changed over these years and most of us are used to retail features without even thinking of how thouse changes altered WoW and our perception of what is an MMORPG.
This happen mostly due the rise of session based games in 2010s Blizzard tried to attract more casual players who do not want to have any social or other interaction. They just want to press matchmaking button and join group of people with likewise interest after sitting in queue as little as possible to fill some daily or weekly caps ASAP.
I like session based games, played HotS since release in 2015 till 2019, but even there a team of people I made connection with and manualmy gathered at least 3 of 5 team slots felt better, than playing solo queue. This is why I love raiding and manually gathered dungeon groups. RDF is only a kickstarter for a proper content to get you some starting gear.
I think both manual and automated group filling systems should coexist in new LFG tool to allow players to choose what they really want.
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This is the best idea out there imo. Shame it’s so incredibly hard for Blizzard to realize that.
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Well there are lots of different player types and different ways to engage in social interactions.
For example some people only run dungeons with the guild, because they somehow think all random groups are bad. Is this more social than “session based gameplay”?
For me the guild is for social interactions outside of dungeons and for raiding. About 90% of dungeons I’ve run were with randoms, because it was even harder to assemble a guild group or even get guildies to join than it was to build a random group, which already was very hard.
But that way I always played dungeons with different players and sometimes we chatted most of the time we didn’t. Sometimes it was a bad group and there run took forever mostly the groups were good and the runs smooth.
I just never went into dungeons to have social interactions, but to get my stuff done.
I don’t think there is a definitive way how the game should be played. But I do absolutely agree with you, that Blizzard should either implement both tools or add optional RDF functionality to the LFG-Tool. This would make the most people happy.
LMAO that’s a good one.
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Honestly, I care more about them getting rid of GDKP and bots than RDF, RDF is just my cheap QoL way out of not having to deal with that s***. What I can’t see doesn’t hurt me. Neither can banning everyone who does GDKP, that can’t hurt me too.
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I honestly don’t get your argument. Last raid I did was Castle Nathria and I have cleared normal and heroic multiple times and even got AOTC only puging mind you. I have 3/10 clear for LFR.
As some1 who raided normal / heroic it doesn’t bother me at all that some1 else only cleared LFR. Like literally it doesn’t affect me at all. I had my pleasure killing Denathrius on HC on my own and don’t understand how my experience was de-valued because of LFR. As I said, I wasn’t even bothering with LFR apart 1 wing to see how much easier it was compared to normal / HC.
You’ve completely missed the point here. You don’t get the argument because you’re looking at it from the wrong perspective, it has nothing to do with what other people are doing and everything to do with the perceived value of something that has to be earned through effort in addition to how it fits into the overall game design.
Dungeon finder puts players together to do the same dungeons unchanged, Raid finder puts people together to do a watered down raid, which is why they are not comparable in the same argument. Raid finder devalues the content and devalues experiencing/overcoming the endboss by removing any obstacles infront of a player.
We have now over 10 years of masses of players complaining about this and you have to understand that there is a real reason behind that, it’s not simply boiled down to caring whether someone else got to see the boss without working for it, it affects the whole game design, progression and balance, particularly in Dragon Soul.
I promise this is not a troll question… But I don’t understand how LFR has damaged WoW so much, and I’d like to hear from Retail players why they hate it so much, so as to be educated on the matter.
The reason I’m asking is because as a player who doesn’t like end-game content (I only play Wow to level and enjoy the open world) and who does not play Retail - in other words, from the outside looking in - I don’t see how LFR would be any different to the dungeon finder.
Is it Cross-realm? I remember that I stopped doing dungeons back in the day when cross-realm was introduced because dungeons became much less personal and laid-back. I could see the hate for sure if this is so.
But has it had any effect on the gameplay? I mean, from what I know, it is primarily used for easy difficulties, right? So players looking for a challenge with hard modes, mythic or whatever Retail has, would still be playing with their own guilds, so how does it affect them? Unless it can also be used for hard mode stuff and thus “poaches” players from guilds?
TLDR: As a super-casual Classic player who chooses not to play endgame, I would love to be educated on how LFR has damaged WoW 
As soon as Ulduar hits ppl will cry for it for real in bigger numbers. Before that, random ppl will cry about it because they are to anti-social to find a guild or a pug to do Naxx.
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No they wont, they will want a distorted version of cata with Raidfinder in from the start, just as they want with RDF.
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There is not much difference.
I think the players asking for LFR later on dont want a distorted version for cataclysm, but an original one, to have an original experience, that Blizzard announced with classic. Same with RDF.
What we currently expect next is a distorted version of wow, a mix of vanilla design, retail elements and original features and wotlk design missing. Its the vanilla+ fans/RDF haters, that want a distortion, a different game design from the original expansions.
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