Lets go straight to the point
The SoD Ret Paladin “rework” doesnt work
Has 3 main problems
- 1 Forces the twisting playstyle on people when its well known that not everyone likes it
- 2 Deleted the old fast weapon exo spam that we had since Phase 2
- 3 Ret doesnt provide anything special that no other paladin spec can provide
My Ideas on how to fix those problems.
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To fix 1 we would need a new rune or maybe modify an existing one to give the efect of Seal of Command to our basic attacks and spells, for example something like the Vindicator rune but giving the Seal of Command efect when Vengance is active, that way ur giving players the dynamic boots of Seal procs with twist while not forcing them on the Twist Playstyle.
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To fix 2 its very easy, just remove the nerf on Art of War and move it to the Chest Rune slot forcing people to choose between Divine Storm or Art of War, that way allowing both playstyles to exist
(with their own limitations like weapons in the case of the exo spam one)
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To fix PROBLEM 3 i think about 2 ways, one would be adding the “Improved seal of crusader” talent from TBC to allow Rets have a unique usefull buff for ur party or giving some extra effect to the Santity Aura along with the new Aura Mastery rune, something like “giving 10% crit chance and X attack power bonus when Aura Mastery is active” lets be creative.
This are my ideas many other Ret players could provide some more feedback on how to face the issue
3 Likes
Guess no reason to play phase 4 then.
Huh? Why did they do that.
Seal Twisting is fine, the problem is the 6 set is it forces you to use 2 Seals so its like a pseudo Seal Twist but might mess up the rotation.
The rotation right now is seal twist>judge, seal twist>DS, Seal Twist>CS repeat. The rotation is fine and works well and does decent damage.
Urrgghh seal twisting. Wont be playing my pala till thats gone
This is a good solution that has potential to allow more freedom with Paladin.
Like you I really do not like the twisting being forced upon us and the old style removed.
It needs to change or I cant see myself playing Paladin and probably SoD anymore. Why would I accept a boring rotation that rots my brain everytime I have to do it. That also does less damage compared to what we should be doing with fast weapon and exorcism.
They did that because Blizzard listened to a vocal minority (like 3 people) on the Paladin Discord. Most people are 50/50 with exo spam playstyle but it seems overwhelmingly Paladins do not wish to twist, at least in SoD.
1 Like
100% this.
Ik those guys ur talking about i have seen them.
But the important thing here is that isnt too late to fix it.
Just by removing the nerf on AoW and moving it to chest rune slot ur alowing 2 playstyles and everyone is happy.
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Exactly. Its not too late to clean this up. I think your chest rune suggestion is great. Blizzard should look more closely at this.
Fix 2 is actually a really good idea.
Since prot talents are actually viable rn, the nerf to Hammer of the Righteous is noting making sense. We already lose 25% dmg from not having Sancity aura and Vengeance since we were forced to play retri talents as prot, on top of that reduce the dmg by 50% on hotr…THATS A 75% DMG NERF.
If we bring it back as it was it will hit for 300 dmg without Sancity Aura and Vengeance, (since we play PROT NOW) maybe reduce the dmg to 3x to the AoE targets and keep 4x for the main target. Because rn this dmg is absurd, 152 per hit -.- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8vTnl6jxdE
I mean the Art of War playstyle still exists but its gonna do less damage than Twisting.
If you dont mind be 500 dps behind Twisters you could play for AoW playstyle.
I think Twisting is the right decision as its classic and this was the defining playstyle for Ret for the most expansions, classic and tbc. I think them adding 2 way twisting and giving us DS, viable consecration and Sheath of Light is basical taking the Original TBC Paladin playstyle but adding the 2 strongest abilities from Wrath (Sheath and DS) and fixing our mana issues.
Overall if you loved Ret in Classic, this is the best iteration we got so far.
If you only like WoTK Ret your pretty screwed. I personally agree with Blizzard saying WoTLK Ret is a mistake because it was so weak all the way to ICC and the rotation was so easy, a 1 button macro could do it to a 90 parse level. The Rotation was too easy and it wasn’t punshing enough if you did it wrong. A Ret pressing optimal buttons vs one who was pressing random buttons in phase 1 was only 1000dps difference, which is only 20% lower dps. Usually its around a 50% mark or more. Wrath Ret is loved but that community is equal size to the Twisters and even if you hate twisting, its hard to make an arguement that WoTLK Ret is better than TBC Twisting Ret.
The truth is that twisting is the best version of Ret in classic, then cataclysm is second best but they obviously could not implement holy power into classic so they gotta go with Seal Twisting. Phase 1 - 3 has been such a mess because they didn’t allow us to twist then designed a weapon with a passive that is stronger than any legendary weapon in classic.
Thats your opinion.
Trying to define a basis for a Season of Discovery play style through historical precedent is antithetical to the very nature of the season.
If you like twisting that much there is classic and private servers to relive that experience.
We should not be happy with Blizzard using twisting as the optimal play style in Season of DISCOVERY. Its old, we should be discovering and experiencing new things.
The current play style is fresh and dynamic.
They could have gutted this exo spam play style and offered something else new, and engaging. But they picked the worst possible choice. They killed a new play style and sent us back to something that a lot of people dont like and to add insult to injury its basically just a nerf in disguise.
2 Likes
I would agree with you if this was classic plus, they should figure out a new playstyle but in SoD theres 2 big issues.
First no spec or class got new abilities, every Rune has been a ability, passive or talent the spec got in TBC or Wrath/Cata. Nothing is new. Warriors play 90% the same as they did, mages play 90% the same as they did, Shamans play the same as they did. Nobody has a new playstyle in SoD.
The reason they said they cant do anything new or fancy is that SoD works on the ERA servers so if they do an update or change abilities it breaks ERA and Hardcore server.
You are asking for something that is out of the scope for SoD. SoD is Classic, sped up with some key abilities from TBC and WoTLK to make more specs viable.
I agree it sucks but the entire spec rework you are asking for is Classic + and god knows if they will even make that.
The dumbest decision ever was for them to use the ERA servers. They should have used the TBC server coding and put SoD on that client and delete the portal to Outlands and cap us at 60. TBC was more balanced so they would need to spend less time on that area of the game and it would of allowed a server they could update spells without breaking the other servers, so we could get flashy new abilities. Nobody talks about this point but thats why SoD will never what people demand. Think of it as SoM + with more support + spec balancing.
Play Ret and Seal Twist or reroll is your options. If you haven’t Seal Twisted before you might change you mind on liking it if you give it a try.
They shouldnt bring back exospam, current version in PTR is more than enough. Then need to buff our other abilites,CS and DS need heavy damage buff. We rely heavily on Weapon damage, so adding something like 2H spec form Cata and putting it into AoW is a way to go. AoW also need more stuff into it. Exodin playstile is not for ret, but more for Shockadin.
2 Likes
it is a lame clase anyway. delete that stuff.
Seal Twisting is fun and cool so no but of they made us play Exo spam i’d rather delete the class too.
Whether other class got new runes or abilities is irrelevant. Paladin had obviously reused abilities but they were being used in new ways, to create a new and engaging playstyle. This is what is fun, whether its new abillities or not, it still feels like a new experience because its an engaging rotation. We are now being forced to revisit old hat seal twisting.
It begs the question if any of the devs even play Paladin, as I would bet that the majority of players would find an exo spam playstyle more enjoyable than a rotation where you have to always watch a swing timer and be mindful, its mentally taxing. Whereas the fast exo spam playstyle caters to the gambling minded degen, stacking speed and more crit to get more exo resets, and having the RNG that it sometimes goes crazy or is sometimes meh is what makes it fun. They removed a playstyle that offered intrigue and mystery to something that is just methodical button pressing with barely any excitement or RNG. I have tried twisting, I’ve played the PTR probably for about 6+ hours on my paladin doing Testwerk and testing rotations with twisting on dummys and it is just a totally braindead way to play the game, having to be hyperfocused on your weapon swing all the time, its just horrible.
Not twisting is not an option for me if its what I have to do to perform high - however this does not trump my enjoyment and I will not play anymore unless another option is presented.
Its taxing because you haven’t mastered it like 90% of Ret players, it stops being taxing once you get the muscle memory and a /stopattack and /startattack macro.
I swear you over estimate what other specs got, nobody got new abilities or a rotation, everyone is the same.
Exo spam hasn’t been removed its just been heavily nerfed. I was 99 parsing in Gnomer and ST and Exo spam is a 1 button rotation. I had so much crit my Exorcism would Reset faster than the GCD because of ACP. You must be the only Ret arguing to keep a 1 button rotation.
I had 50% Crit with consumes and world Buffs and that gives you something like a 75% chance to Crit either SoM or Your Auto every Auto Attack then you add ACP passive to the mix and Sul Thraze swap after 30s and you will press 1 button for 90% of the fight. It was so braindead the rotation; I streamed myself on discord to friends with my eyes closed for some bosses and got Orange parses when doing it.
I don’t care what you are saying about Twisting but advocating for a 1 button rotation is wrong and needed gutted like it has been.
Twisting isn’t being forced unless you want to do the highest damage possible. Twisting has been constantly been requested since TBC ended there was no Server. SoM only ever existed in TBC and the defining feature of SoM was it being Twisted with SoC to hit x2 for massive damage. When you get your Molten Core Weapon and Gear, your Seal Twist Crit max role will hit like 5k damage in a single auto. Probably when you see your DPS shoot to number 1 and all the big numbers on your screen you’ll probably feel a lot better about doing it.
Also if you pump on the meters/logs and your Seal Twisting, you’ll get a lot of respect from players and it’ll make you one of the Ret paladins with more than 2 brain cells which is a rare sight. I remember people remembered and knew me on my server in TBC because I pumped at Seal Twisting. I was constantly whispered by top end guilds to help because it was hard to find Retris who could preform at that level. Going into this phase it will be cool to see good Rets do insane damage and bad Rets do no damage as it should be.
Feel free to reroll, cause now I’m finally going to play my paladin again. Fast 2h weapons exo spam killed it for me, so I’m glad seal twisting is back
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your like the only person ive read on this whole forum thats happy about it
1 Like