PTR Spoiler/Discussion Thread (Part 1)

[Zaphius-argent-dawn-370497]

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

Everything you said was headcanon,

I disagree with this bit, there’s plenty of sources who give some credibility to Fentonius’ interpretation.

There are several hints that dragons dissociate their true form from their mortal avatar, and they very much prefer their natural form:

In War of the Ancients, Krasus feels “trapped” in his mortal form, as he is unable to transform back into a dragon. He explicitly regrets being unable to fly, defining himself [translated from italian] “a creature of the sky” (in opposition to his current, wingless form), and if memory serves me right, he even dreams about flying.

In Twilight of the Aspects, when Thrall reaches the Nexus, Kalec and other blue dragons take humanoid forms. The one who doesn’t is Arygos, who points out that he shouldn’t do that out of courtesy for their guest - his gesture is depicted as a lack of kindness/respect towards Thrall, implying that normally dragons don’t take mortal forms in their lairs and those who did, did so only out of courtesy (ie. Thrall being there).

Multiple times in the old lore dragons are depicted as having a bias over humanoid races, which they see as unreliable:

During the WotA, DotD novels and even some WotLK dragon bosses refer to non-dragons as “lesser beings”, implying that several among them don’t think that highly of humanoids.

This is further confirmed by other Aspects being moderately annoyed by Kalec’s tendency to prefer his Visage’s name rather than what is defined his dragon name: that is, Kalecgos. This also implies that most dragons hold a strong distinction between what is their disguise and what is their true form.

Further expanding upon this: always in the WotA we see dragon agents spying upon the kaldorei empire - red and blue, respectively. Both don’t think very highly of mortals, and if I recall correctly both make a few remarks in regards to the elves’ arrogance.

I think that what Fentonius is referring to, however, might be Kalec explaining to Anveena the lore of dragons. Once I get home I will check the manga out.

[Distantpeak-argent-dawn (Distantpeak)]

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

Everything you said was headcanon, except in the case of black dragons who again are Actual Villains and At War [] with every faction.

That will end soon though.
They’re just normies.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/997191874110574692/1038403831656091698/WoWScrnShot_110522_104400.jpg
This is Osoria in Valdrakken with several black whelps. She lands in the Obsidian Enclave and wanders around.
A male black dragon also lands and turns into an orc.
The Outland influence.

[Fentonius-argent-dawn (Fentonius)]

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

or on a secret mission to guide mortals without drawing attention away from the real matter at hand with the fact that there’s a dragon here.

That is exactly part of what I wrote, I don’t lend credence to any headcanon. Implications are one thing, imagining things in my head another.

@Fentonius-argent-dawn

that gave us the impression that dragons, for good and bad, take part of mortal society under the guises of mortals instead of their true forms

[Elenthas-argent-dawn (Elenthas)]

@Lintian-argent-dawn

…But why though

Same reason I want a chapter of a book dedicated to Night Elf religious practices or Zandalari physiology, or why I like looking at technical diagrams for giant robots that don’t exist.

I (and they) just think it’s neat.

[Telaryn-argent-dawn (Telaryn)]

Certainly, but being hunted isn’t the reason why. They’re not using disguises out of fear of persecution. Unless you’re a black dragon, who again are literally at war with everyone at the time those stories took place.

@Zaphius-argent-dawn-370497

In Twilight of the Aspects, when Thrall reaches the Nexus, Kalec and other blue dragons take humanoid forms. The one who doesn’t is Arygos, who points out that he shouldn’t do that out of courtesy for their guest - his gesture is depicted as a lack of kindness/respect towards Thrall, implying that normally dragons don’t take mortal forms in their lairs and those who did, did so only out of courtesy (ie. Thrall being there).

This falls in line with the desire to accommodate them as a basic courtesy like I said. Arygos and others are specifically defined as being buttholes who don’t care, because they believe in dragon supremacy and they are Actual Villains Of The Story. Arygos isn’t a sympathetic character, nor is he juxtaposed as a representative of the average dragon – hence he stands out by being the only one who actively disrespects their mortal guests.

@Zaphius-argent-dawn-370497

In War of the Ancients, Krasus feels “trapped” in his mortal form, as he is unable to transform back into a dragon. He explicitly regrets being unable to fly, defining himself [translated from italian] “a creature of the sky” (in opposition to his current, wingless form), and if memory serves me right, he even dreams about flying.

In the passage about him dreaming about flight and being a creature of the sky, it’s also pointed out that he has always been very comfortable with being in his mortal form. What’s causing him discomfort is lack of agency and his ability to choose being taken from him, which is an understandable thing to be feeling upset about.

[Fentonius-argent-dawn (Fentonius)]

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

Arygos isn’t a sympathetic character, nor is he juxtaposed as a representative of the average dragon – hence he stands out by being the only one who actively disrespects their mortal guests.

But I guess at some point he partook in and celebrated visage day. Visage day bothers me more and more.

[Zaphius-argent-dawn-370497]

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

hence he stands out by being the only one who actively disrespects their mortal guests.

Yes, we both said that, but what is important is that the novel makes it so that on average even Kalec/other dragons don’t take visage form in the Nexus. Kalec is taking it because there is an external cause motivating him to do so out of courtesy, something that usually implies a form of inconvenience, even if minor: he would remain in his dragon form otherwise, because that is his true nature.

Kalec isn’t a supremacist, he doesn’t believe dragons are better than mortals and yet even he preferred his dragon form, as per that novel: not out of some prejudice against mortals, likely, but rather because that’s just who he is: a dragon.

@Telaryn-argent-dawn

What’s causing him discomfort is lack of agency and his ability to choose being taken

I disagree here - he directly states missing flying, not [only] his agency, which also bothers him.

Edit.
I think I found the bit Fentonius refers to. Here it goes: in the Sunwell Trilogy after Anveena casually reveals to her parents that Kalec is a blue dragon (and they give him a warm welcome), Kalec mentions that her family’s wonderful, and that “anyone else would have tried to kill me…” and he goes on to explain why: because people see dragons as ferocious beasts, aggressive, and bent on destroying things (because of the PR damage done by the black dragonflight, in his opinion).

As a minor note, as I read this part, it has little to do with the dragons’ feelings about their visages but, rather, their need to remain incognito - regardless of their form - out of necessity. It’s about not telling to the world they are dragons.

[Arlissia-argent-dawn]

…But why not though?

[Moridunum-argent-dawn (Moridunum)]

Alright, having played the pre-patch for a few days since its release now.

I really, really, hate the fact they added in Covenant abilities for some classes(Demon Hunters is the one that comes to mind most for me) without even (trying to) changing(/e) the abilities appearance to fit the appearance of the class’ abilities.

The Hunt can work as a Demon Hunter ability. However it feels out of place with its weird Night Fae colors when you compare it next to all the Fel green coloured or Purple coloured spells the Demon Hunter usually employs.

And thats beside the fact of them not changing the flavour text of said ability. I cannot even remeber when this has happened in any previous expansion, but that might just be me.

But it feels very jarring, especially since this is one of the most devisive expansions to date. And I doubt people will ever look back at Shadowlands fondly.(<-- Personal opinion)

[Hordeculler-argent-dawn]

@Moridunum-argent-dawn

But it feels very jarring, especially since this is one of the most devisive expansions to date. And I doubt people will ever look back at Shadowlands fondly.(<-- Personal opinion)

If I recall correctly some alpha testers were complaining about the same thing. Danuser or one of his minions then went to the bird app stating that whether we like it or not Shadowlands is canon and we took these abilities with us back to Azeroth.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[Moridunum-argent-dawn (Moridunum)]

I remeber something akin to that aswell, but that does not take away the fact that if it happened before, which I presume it did, the abilities fell inline with the rest of the class abilities instead of this random one-off ability standing out for some -reason*, to put it mildly.

And yes, I do dislike everything Shadowlands; but had the abilities atleast fell in line with the rest of the class abilities, I probably would not have mind them because they add or detract literally nothing from the story or lore. But for some reason Shadowlands is the sole expansion where they felt the need to clarify that some abilities are coming with us.

(*Danuser not wanting to admit his expansion sucks s)

[Hordeculler-argent-dawn]

@Moridunum-argent-dawn

But for some reason Shadowlands is the sole expansion where they felt the need to clarify that some abilities are coming with us.

The reason is Dragonflight being a half-arsed, rushed expansion and it would have cost a raid tier to repurpose Covenant/conduit abilities to suit the class fantasy more than the Shadowlands Covenant theme they’re from.

[Vervaina-argent-dawn]

@Hordeculler-argent-dawn

If I recall correctly some alpha testers were complaining about the same thing. Danuser or one of his minions then went to the bird app stating that whether we like it or not Shadowlands is canon and we took these abilities with us back to Azeroth.

Thanks I hate it.

[Zaphius-argent-dawn-370497]

@Hordeculler-argent-dawn

that whether we like it or not Shadowlands is canon and we took these abilities with us back to Azeroth

Remember when they said the covenants would not work on Azeroth and using them beyond the shadowlands was only for game mechanics?
…yeah. New retcon!

Also. How come all the other abilities don’t come with us? Only some? Weird flex

[Moridunum-argent-dawn (Moridunum)]

@Zaphius-argent-dawn-370497

Remember when they said the covenants would not work on Azeroth and using them beyond the shadowlands was only for game mechanics?

I wonder how none of the abilities from expansions before Shadowlands didn’t come with us?

Like Gladiator stance( ), etc?

[Thuzar-argent-dawn (Thuzar)]

@Hordeculler-argent-dawn

it would have cost a raid tier to repurpose Covenant/conduit abilities

Good.jpg
scrap the raids.

[Distantpeak-argent-dawn (Distantpeak)]

Dragonflight Legacies: Chapter Three

[Elenthas-argent-dawn (Elenthas)]

Why would you make them care about honour, Blizzard.

Please just do not include that word in any of your writing ever again. You cannot be trusted with it.

[Urrus-argent-dawn]

is it the protocol to throw dragons with “_____”-Eaters through portals? Is this a new thrope?

[Gabrindion-argent-dawn]

Please tell me I’m not alone in thinking Razageth being sucked into the Old God portal looked incredibly awkward animation-wise.