PTR Spoiler/Discussion Thread (Part 2)

Noted, it’s the opposite for me with its borderline character assassination just to make Arthas another shade of grey instead of a lawful good boy going deranged.

It’s honestly a diabolical state of affairs when you unironically miss Knaak slightly.

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None of his arc in wc3 is at odds with those traits. Arthas was always shown as being narcissistic and egotistical. And he certainly turned abusive when he landed in Northrend.

Those traits don’t/didn’t pretend him from being brave, just and unrelenting, which is how he starts in wc3.

Also all characters and tropes are varying kinds of copies of one another.

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In fairness, thrall and many other orcs that would have been around him probably would habe not remembered draenor as nothing more but an arid, dying world so the image he might have had of it wasn’t false. It was simply a snapshot of the history he must have been familiar with.

Especially when you take into consideration that atleast a portion of the Orcish Horde were magically-aged-up kids like Rend and Maim Blackhand at the start of the First War, so there’s indeed a good chance many of them only remember Draenor as a wasteland.

Arthas wasn’t perfect though I never got the impression that he was actively malicious - he was very much a well meaning hero who was manipulated and corrupted.

I’m not one to beat around the bush - it’s pretty clear that he was thrown under the bus and retconned to be less sympathetic largely to help spin Sylvanas as a bigger victim than she actually was.

What happened to her at Arthas’ hands was awful, though it happened after Arthas was corrupted and it certainly doesn’t excuse anything that Sylvanas did after being reanimated.

Arthas was already defeated and given a fitting send off back in the days of WOTLK and so it does very much feel like a case of spite writing to try and shift away from tragedy and towards outright blame.

…and I say this as someone who absolutely loathes the character due to what he did to Quel’Thalas. Yet I can separate Arthas as a human from Arthas as an undead entity.

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Of course. But the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

I never got that vibe about him, nor would I think that they actively made him appear less sympathetic to make Sylvanas look “better”.

To me personally, the whole dynamic of Arthas and Sylvanas is forged in the moment Arthas runs her through with the Frostmourne, and turns her into a Banshee.

Arthas then ascends to be the Lich King, no longer a pawn but the frozen king of the damned- Completing his fall from grace and shredding any and all shackles and masters that had tried to snare and control him.

Meanwhile Sylvanas gains her freedom, but at the cost of turning into a monster. A sympathetic monster, but a monster nonetheless.

The biggest difference I can think of myself right of the bat is one I’ve brought up before, how the culling of Stratholme is portrayed.

In WC3, we are starting to heavily see his more negative sides as he gets petty at Uther and sends him away for daring to question him, but then back to his care for Jaina.

Throughout the mission, it’s also made clear through little dialogue options that Arthas still somewhat cares for the people there. It makes it clear that the citizens are beyond saving and already twisted, you infact openly attack zombies at several points. And the ones that are still human are different, and he does show regret killing them. But he both deems it the only way as he saw Andorhal and he doesn’t wish to see Mal’Ganis win.

Then take the WoW version of the events,in which several citizens approach Arthas and praises him for his arrival and how he will help them. He makes a “heh, don’t worry about smug grin” quip at one of the villagers before directly, personally executing the man who showed no symptoms infront of the entire rest of the populace before going on a careless killing spree in which he just seems to really enjoy killing people.

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Being the jerk is also the more boring version.

Someone who does what they can, regrets some of the steps they take, and is trying to protect something, only to fall into the trap laid for them? Peak tragedy writing.

Then the anti-hero arc, embracing the monster he’s become and outplaying his supposed masters, becoming ‘King’ once more? Works very well.

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think this is a mischaracterisation honestly
The dialogue is

Civvie: Prince Arthas, may the light be praised! Many people in the town have begun to fall seriously ill, can you help us?
Arthas: I can only help you with a clean death.

From checking a youtube vid this line isn’t voiced, but assuming it’s a pithy quip with a smug grin and not a resigned “this is all I can do for you” when the former is out of character and the latter is absolutely not (based on WC3 and the novel both) seems unfair.

And not to get all arthas defender but none of the NPCs at the entrance showed symptoms, but then they immediately turn into undead once Mal’Ganis shows up so…

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The sanest WoW developer:

(I mean Asmon is not all there but not because Culling was the only way out).

Oh look, they’re selling us a codex that BioWare would just put into the actual game for free!

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why do they call it a definitive guide if it will have yet another unreliable narrator

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Retconned within a patch aswell, knowing Blizzard😔

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It’s not? I definitely remember hearing it voiced back when I did Culling of Stratholme for the first umpteen times.

I’m not subbed to check, could be the guy just didn’t have his voice volume on, since there were other game sounds playing, idk.

The Definitively Unreliable Codex* didn’t have the same ring to it.

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I’m pretty sure the time travel Culling was voiced.
Mostly cos I remember it sounding nothing like WC3 Arthas and that, coupled with his bright yellow, low poly hammer, was annoying me :sweat_smile:

I thought it was just Wowhead’s way of advertising the book but it’s actually written on the cover. :clown_face:

Wasn’t that because they offered Justin Gross a pittance to reprise the role or am I misremembering?