Probably the same as Nozzy⌠Donât mess with the true timeline.
Gotta respect his self-control when he could literally time travel to the beginning and start anew and better⌠But its not the true timeline, so no doing that
Edit: YES! I know its not a point in his favor, ElenthasâŚ
But hardly anything is with all the changes and retcons and everything!
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âIt is my destiny to get owned so I will let it happen.â - The words of a madman.
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Thatâs how I PvP, so thereâs that.
Also, can we not drag up that Christianity thing again.
Just no.
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Me, aswell!
One day I will die enough times to get my 3 Warsaber mounts and all PvP appearances from Darkshore!
Sorry, my friend, I just read there is no Warcraft without Christianity 
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I think the christian themes in WoW have been good.
Idk i donât so much care about the titan and the watcher stuff, but I do dislike the attempt to make void ânot so badâ.
To me it borders a similar line of argument as âwhich Chaos god in warhammer is the best to worship?â. None of them. Itâs not a question of âwhich one is the bestâ, but rather âwhich one is the least horribleâ.
Itâs fine that void is evil and all consuming.
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Because the faith in Blizzardâs writing team is down in the trenches even if its entire upper brass has been replaced, which were the ones that made the directions which people disliked. So much so, that a storyline which is going to end in Ulduar, touching on the same themes that Ulduar did in 2008, written by the same person who wrote Ulduar from 2008, is having people react to it as if not only is it something that is or was disliked, but that it straight up didnât happen - and thatâs the true issue.
Whether you think the titans and stories pertaining them and their business is a good plot or not is your prerogative. You can like it, dislike it, thatâs all up to you and what you like - but to claim that the concept in itself never happened just because you donât like it? Thatâs just plain stupid.
Weâve literally had entire dungeons, raids and plots that go over topics about how the titans arenât all that great and how trigger-happy they are to root out whatever deviates even slightly from their vision if they can perceive it and react to it fast enough, one of which being the last boss of the raid which we are revisiting at the end of this trilogy of expansions. Theyâve literally namedropped the place where it first happened more than ten years ago and people are still acting bewildered like this never happened.
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Ngl, I kinda feel sorry for the current writing team (and higher ups). They have to prove themselves twice over due to the fact the former writing(and their higher ups) team made⌠The last few expansions.
Even Metzen being onboard doesnât get people to settle down at them moment, and that says alot as he was hailed as the second coming of WoW-Worldbuilding/stories when it was announced he was back!
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I mean, the thing for me is is that I donât get this whole talk about how entire storyline premises and archetypes are bad and never to be used again over the misdirection of folks who are no longer even in the company, but thatâs not the most important issue for me.
What bothers me is that itâs like if someone offered to go out to eat dinner at a local steakhouse, and I started talking as if the concept of a steak in itself is this moronic avant-garde idea they just came up with recently out of nowhere which is absolutely awful on a fundamental basis, instead of just simply saying that I didnât like how some of the former cooks made it, or that I simply donât like steak.
You can dislike something without pretending that it just fell from the sky like an unsupervised young Lucifer after watching Brock Lesnar do a shooting star press for the first time.
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I canât speak for anyone else, but Iâm fine with âThe Titans were not perfect, nor are there creationsâ as a theme.
Iâm just quite worried about the apparent conjoined other side which keeps looming in the backround - two sides, in fact; the done-to-death âI was only trying to defend against an Even Greater Threat!â nonsense, and âBut what if the Void isnât totally evil?â
Like⌠weâve had it well established for years and years that the one thing the Void can be trusted on is to be Not Trustworthy. That and turn your eyeballs into fanged maws and your teeth into tentacles, or somesuch.
Edit: Also âWhat if Light evil?â is equally âmehâ to me. The Light as a force that is neither good nor evil, to be used by characters that can be good or evil? Thatâs fine.
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I think thereâs 2 instances of people applying the occamâs razor.
To the people that dislike the modern storyline(s) of Blizzard, such as the titan/keeper argument above, the simplest answer is that modern storytelling and storytellers suck.
To the people saying that actually the storytelling has always been this way in this particular storyline, the answer as to why then people dislike it so much is a kneejerk reaction.
I think thereâs truth to both statements. I will give an example.
I have liked Ebonhorn since his introduction. He has been a fsr more consistent character than wrathion and his actions and/or the lack of them have had meaningful cobsequences to them. Evwn in DF.
And yet, I despise him in DF. Not because his character is in any way shape or form inconsistent with the way how he should behave, but because of how Blizzard chose to use him in the story.
There was so much potential wasted between him, Sabellian and Wrathion to create a story expperience beyond friendship is magic,: Dragonflight.
You could have had him caught in the crossfire of Wrathionâs and Sabellians power struggle. You could have made him nope the hell out of the whole thing and instead stay with Maela and the Highmountain at the end of it all, telling everyone that maybe dragons shouldnât be empowered with their gifts again, to prevent them using them for tyrannical gains (e.g. alexstrazsa). Hell you could have even pretend to be the reasonable and kind one out of the three candidates, only to take the place of aspect after Sabellian and Wrathion tear eachother down.
To me, a good ongoing story like WoW has an alarming rate of problems that just magically get solved and things just work out. Thatâs not good. As a writer you should be looking for every opportunity you can to sow seeds of âwill this come and bite the heroes up ther edited by moderator ? Find out in the next expansion(s)!â
That, or the devs just Sleepy Joe forget about them.
In any case, before I ramble any longer, I hope my point is clear. People might lack the proper words or skills to express how they feel about the story, but that doesnât mean they are wrong.
Illidan is probably the most obvious example of this. Blizzard kept him very consistent through Legion, that wasnât the issue. The issue became when Blizzard started to try and make the players (and the npcâs) in the game thst Illidan was actually, in the end, objectively a good guy and smarter and better than them, rather than a selfish egotistical incel who used the ends to justify the means.
To conclude: Same story. Same material. Same themes =/= equally enjoyable story.
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I think its not so much as a âDonât ever use that storyline againâ (unless its the Horde finding itself again, then literally donât ever do that storyline again) as its âwe still do not trust new writers with the Warcraft storyâ even if, in this case, its under supervision of the person(Metzen) who made Warcraft what it was before BfA(?)
Also I donât know if Kaytlinne agrees with me on this, but there is no gray area with Light or Void. Void is bad, its evil and its not trustworthy. It will twist and pull and whisper what you want to hear until you do its bidding.
On the otherside, Light used to be its benevolent counterpart. the otherside of the cosmic coin that created the Warcraft Universe. Its Good, it inspires the best in people and while it can be abused, akin to how the Scarlet Crusade does it, in the end its a force of Good.
And I think people are just tired that everything has to be a shade of gray. Titans can be a benevolent force of Good, even if their legacy is not(I think Shadowtwili said it perfectly before) in the same manner that I cannot comprehend that the Void âIsnât as bad is its made out to beâ with its ritual sacrifices, slave-races, mental destruction of its followers and what not.
Just saw your edit, and now I feel I have to ask; why canât the same count for the Void then? as a force its neither good nor evil. Its the characters that use it for Good or evil.
Imho, it cannot be the same. The creation of Warcraft cosmos has never changed; its 2 opposite forces that clashed. And imho that cannot be true if the Light is a source that can be used for both, but the Void is just pure evil. Then it would not be 2 opposite forces, but just 2 forces clashing.(Which then changes into why wasnât it Fel and Arcane? Or Death and Life?)
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Because theyâre opposite but not the same.
We know the Light, at least in prior writing, has been relatively Neutral. Otherwise the Scarlet Crusade would not have been a thing. âBut they thought they were Right, just manipulated by a Dreadlord-â Yes, and if the Light was a sentient or active force, rather than a passive one, it would not have worked with a pretty objectively malignent force intervening?
In contrast, weâve seen the Void as a much more active force, and it twists and destroys/consumes what it interacts with. As a force it can be used to occasionally further productive ends, but the nature of it is not indifferent like the Light has been shown to be (again, previously. Who knows if that will change?)
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I hate that every magic type these days can do the same as the next one and all the difference lies in what colour they are.
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In which case, is blaming all of oneâs criticisms on the story on a particular thematic fair? If people donât like the story because in their minds, anything that is related to modern storytelling and its writers, even if the higher ups and direction-makers are replaced with the ones that made the storylines they supposedly prefer, is bad; then why is the thematic exactly an issue?
If they do a faction war itâs bad, if they do things pertaining to the more magical aspects of a fantasy setting itâs bad, if they do nothing and maintain the status quo and move onto a new land so they donât have to tackle any topics pertaining the setting at large itâs bad; if all of it is bad in peopleâs eyes, is the problem the food they ordered, the cooks, or the restaurant theyâre consistently attending every night while retching as they read every item in the menu that theyâve been gulfing down for sixteen years no problem until theyâve grown a distaste for it to the point that they start acting like they were never in the menu at any point until that very day?
Claiming that the old story is better because it was written by better writers and designed better, only to follow it up with âyeah but itâs modern storytelling so itâs going to be bad anywayâ after they hired those very same old writers and storytellers - then is the fact that the titans are acting according to how theyâve been depicted before except for one instance where we personally saved them, or is the problem something larger like simply not liking anything at all about the setting anymore?
I answer that with examples in the rest of my post.
I want to argue with you, I really, really do, especially on Light and Void being opposite sides on the same coin, because thats what they are.
But we know for a fact that there is a Light-Pantheon and a Void-Pantheon(Void Lords). We just donât know, and I doubt Blizzard knows, why one is much more active in the evil department, and why the other one, a supposed force of Good(I mean, if theyâre opposites and one is a force of Evil, it stands to reason the other side has to be a force of Good, no?) does not even bother to intervene in anything?
Same 
Why would anyone make an Arcane portal, when Light and Void Portals are better and donât destroy the planet???
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By being so consistently terrible that howling, unthinking madness through four new mouths becomes a relief.
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From my perspective:
Titans in older lore would install a self destruct button in their house in case of a viral outbreak of some hideous plague. Insane, but there is a cold logic behind it.
Titans as of modern lore would install a 12-gauge under their toddlerâs crib that activates if the child starts screaming.
And then you have people saying that the two are the same because the toddler dies in both scenarios.
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So, titans in older lore wouldâve installed a self-destruct button that wouldâve wiped out the entire planet because they see the Curse of Flesh and free will as a hideous plague, compared to titans in newer lore, who wouldâve installed a self-destruct button that wouldâve wiped out the entire planet because they see the Curse of Flesh and free will as a hideous plague, but this time with the mental image of shotgunning a baby in a crib to make newer lore seem more ridiculous than glassing the entire planet because people arenât stone robots anymore.
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