PTR Spoiler/Discussion Thread (Part 3)

Nothing here is really new, it’s mostly just stuff that we’ve already been shown on Twitter.

One thing that was shown in a screenshot was the Gilneans, who seem to be wearing a new uniform that actually looks good. Hopefully it’s a look that players are able to get for themselves, though I don’t recognise all of the pieces. It certainly looks better than the heritage and the Gilnean noble sets.

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/guide/images/29916.jpg

There’s also an important section at the bottom of the article called “United, But Distinct” that makes some important points, but also misses a couple of points.

A frequent critique from the community since the events of Battle for Azeroth has been the notable lack of faction presence. While such an absence made sense in the realms of Death, their absence as distinct entities was felt during our time on the Dragon Isles, where groups like the Dragonscale Expedition played a minor and ultimately neutral role. Likewise, the presence of organizations with long-standing preferences towards Alliance races such as the Kirin Tor and Cenarion Circle led to an absence of relevant Horde storylines for much of the expansion’s main story, especially given the notable lack of a group like the Earthen Ring against such an obviously elemental threat.

These were fears echoed by the community often going into The War Within, where the only notable Horde character seemed to be that of Thrall, who during testing was revealed to leave almost immediately into the leveling story of Khaz Algar. As a result, we’re left with characters like Moira and Dagran Thaurissan, Anduin Wrynn, and Alleria Windrunner as our main characters for the four leveling zones - a cast distinctly lacking in any Horde presence. This led to the fear that, like with many other expansions not explicitly featuring faction conflict, Horde stories would take a backseat to the stories of Alliance characters, ones that have their own frequent issue of being posited as neutral and lacking in a uniquely faction-oriented focus.

It’s good to see someone at Wowhead recognising the relative lack of Horde representation (especially Kalimdor Horde representation) in Dragonflight and now in the War Within, in comparison to Alliance representation.

Thankfully, the max level campaign of the expansion seems to be dissuading those fears, for the moment. Not only do we see the factions present here, we see them shown as distinct entities amidst their unity against Xal’atath. Rather than forming an external organization like the Dragonscale Expedition, the Horde and Alliance are present as their own groups here, fighting for the same cause but helping our new allies amidst Khaz Algar in distinct ways. While these beachside training exercises are taking place, Thrall trains the demoralized Stormriders of Dornogal how to harness the power of the elements while Kurdran Wildhammer teaches them how to ride their gryphons, and in the depths of Azj-Kahet, Lilian Voss takes a role alongside our nerubian allies in understanding the tactics of Xal’atath and her allies.

As we head into a new expansion and begin speculating on its patch stories, there is hope that the factions which so uniquely define the Warcraft setting will continue to play a notable role in the fights ahead, beyond the premise of active conflict with one another. Quests like these show that in the modern era, the factions can be informed by their presence alongside each other without needing to jeopardize their unique identities for the sake of faction-neutral stories. Hopefully this presence will be felt not only in the future zones awaiting us in Khaz Algar, but into our adventures in Midnight and The Last Titan as well.

This is the bit that I disagree with, personally.

It is good that the Horde is getting representation here… But only alongside equally strong Alliance representation. This portion of the post-levelling story has a strong focus on both of the factions, but it doesn’t change the fact that the levelling story is almost exclusively focused on the Alliance and Alliance-adjacent characters and factions.

Similarly, Thrall’s storyline with the Stormriders has him mirrored by Kurdran Wildhammer from the Alliance, so there’s equal representation there as well. But equal representation still doesn’t solve the imbalance. I would personally appreciate it if there was a point in the narrative where the Horde gets as much exclusive narrative focus as the Alliance and Alliance-adjacent characters and factions have gotten, where it gets to shine alone in the spotlight just as much as the Alliance has.

So far, the only example of this is Lilian Voss, who dominates a portion of the post-levelling Azj-Kahet story. More of that would be good, though preferably with characters from the Kalimdor side of the Horde. Less focus on elves and undead, more focus on goblins, trolls, tauren and yes, even orcs would be nice. Warlords of Draenor was a decade ago, I’d like to think orc fatigue has worn off by now.

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Lillion Voss-fatigue is kicking in me for me. She has become such an important character for the Horde, when nobody even knows why she is in the Horde in the first place(the fact that she randomly appears everywhere as everyones bestie contact is tiresome, aswell):weary:

At any rate, I might not be a fan of the Horde myself, I wouldn’t have mind if Thrall and Anduin both had 50% of a zone, or Rokhan and Alleria, etc.

The Horde characters are getting underutilized, which is not a bad thing perse, as they are faction leaders and I think its stupid Kings and leaders of factions somehow always end up on the frontline, but then it should also count for the Alliance and not only the Horde! And aside from that, Horde characters need to some lore to them, since they are pretty bareboned lorewise and characterization-wise, since most of them are new or underdeveloped compared to their Alliance counterparts!

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It’s the Nathria leather set mixed with one of the cosmetic ones you can get in Khaz Algar.

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Isnt it a bit unfair to assume the Arathi Empire never has been tested, just because we dont know yet? For all we know they easily could have had their own grand wars we never heard off. (Which, to be fair, is quite likely).

Maybe one day we will learn about the terrible war against Urghol the Face-Flayer and this bloodthirsty legions of crazed warriors. Or how the cousin of the third Emperor brought forth the demonic legions of Vanathrax the Unmaker? Or how they struck down the Great Beast, who´s twisted spawn swallowed whole the entirety of the southern provinces? Or the invasion of the Thognal-People, who attempted a grand ritual that could have shattered reality itself. We just dont know and have to assume Blizzard wont unveil every secret and every bit of history that might await us in some future Arathi Homeland expansion pack years before we even get there. Thats like assuming the Pandaren are show offs just because Chen back in WC3 never told us about the Mogu, the Mantid, the Zandalari Invasion or the Sha.

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If my Grand Marshal RP character told you I’d fought a bunch of made up threats offscreen in my character bio you wouldn’t be impressed either.

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One thing that interests me is that the Arathi Empire has dragons of its own.

The vast majority of known dragon types come from proto-dragons and continue to be proto-dragons, become elementally-infused by the Incarnates or get uplifted to become the dragons of the dragonflights. Almost all known dragons belong to or are descended from one of these three groups.
One of the exceptions to this is the elemental dragons of Cataclysm, who seem to be unintelligent and might just be elementals with a draconic form, or who might be the elemental precursors to proto-dragons.
Another exception is the storm dragons of Legion, since their origin isn’t told to us. Despite this, they seem like traditional dragons and I think it’s likely that they were once uplifted dragons that swore to serve Odyn and were enhanced by him in return.
The third exception is the cloud serpents of Mists of Pandaria, who undeniably have nothing to do with the primary lineage of dragons and are something separate entirely. They’re their own thing, unique and special.

So I’m just wondering what the dragons of the Arathi Empire are like, and if they’re tied to any of the dragons that we know of, whether it’s proto-dragon, uplifted dragon or cloud serpent. And what’s this about granting wishes? This is not a power that any dragon that we know of possesses, in Warcraft or in real world mythology - as far as I know. Or is it just a sly Dragonball reference and I’m looking too deep into this?

Whatever the case, I’m intrigued. Slipping titbits of vague lore into casual conversations like that is a good way of igniting interest and creating speculation, even if it’ll likely never be explored, knowing Blizzard.

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Wait, is that something they mention in the quests?

Wrathion has done much since returning to the Dragon Isles. Have you had any contact?
Anduin Wrynn says: He’s tried. I’ve been dodging Blacktalons almost as much as Sl:7. I know he just wants to help. Like the others. But what could they say? What could I say?
Anduin Wrynn says: Wrathion had his greatest wish before him in the Dragon Isles. To reunite with his flight. The last thing I want would be to distract him from that purpose.
Faerin Lothar says: Anduin–
Faerin Lothar says: Wait a moment, You’re… friends with a dragon?
Faerin Lothar says: A DRAGON?! You’re just casually friends with a legendary beast known to scour lands and grant wishes?
Anduin blinks, then laughs.
Anduin Wrynn says: I don’t think Wrathion would be keen on either of those things. He’s self-centered and boastful and… a good friend I should not have neglected for so long.
Anduin Wrynn says: We also often played a game together, much like this. I think this one is even more suited to his tastes. He’d like it.
Faerin Lothar says: Well, then! When you go to apologize, you’ll have to introduce me!
Anduin Wrynn says: I’m not sure Stormwind would survive the chaos caused by the two of you in one room.

The fact that Faerin seems to know what a dragon is and seems to think that it’s something different to Azeroth’s known dragons (known for “scouring lands and granting wishes”) implies that Arathor has its own dragons with particular abilities attributed to them.

Yeah I couldn’t really agree either that the max-level campaign in anyway makes up for the complete and utter absence of any sort of Horde presence during the Levelling. Thrall gets 1-2 quests in Dornogal, but equally so does Kurdran and the then you have the rest of the Alliance gang taking up the other 3 zones levelling experiences and, despite Lilian’s appearances in Azj-Kahet, she’s still a very minor part of Azj-Kahet, usually just showing up to flank Alleria and occasionally do what she asks her too whilst the real players, Anduin and Alleria, do almost everything else in that zone.

Its entirely possible they’re keeping all the Horde stuff for future patch content (Undermine feels almost guaranteed at this point), but is even that enough to be satisfactory when the entire expansion will otherwise be completely snuffing the Horde in its entirety? I’m not sure.

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does the goblin raid have a name on it yet now that you mention that. that raid is what has me utterly curious because it seems almost random amidst everything else going on. i’m sure it will make more sense in the story but.

its the sad cycle of blizzards expacs with a long while now at this point. they over-use a race or an npc to the point it leads to fatigue of them. the orc fatigue of mop and draenor. the draenei fatigue of legion. (not as widespread that one at least.) the sylvanas fatigue of bfa and shadowlands. the nelf fatigue of bfa to dragonflight. the alliance-centric fatigue stretching back years coming now again into war within. it wears thin after a while.

almost forgot the infamous “green jesus thrall” fatigue of cataclysm.

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I would!

Whoa whoa! Anybody has draenei fatigue??

I think fel fatigue would be more accurate, but 7.3 was certainly bursting at the seams with eredar/draenei of every variety. That wasn’t enough for me to get draenei fatigue, but I can understand if some people were overwhelmed. At least it wasn’t a continuation of the heavy elf focus that the Broken Isles had - though that didn’t also last long enough to result in major fatigue.

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I think fatigue of certain races is due to lack of difference.

For example the Orc-fatigue after WoD was mainly due to the fact we mostly saw “Raargh me smash”-Orcsz while the Draenei were much more diverse. Its the same why people got Night Elf-Fatigue, since we didn’t see much of the Night Elves except for Tyrande and the whole Night Warrior-arc! While during Legion we saw a way more diverse society of Night Elves, with Highborne, Druids, Demon Hunters etc!

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Wasn’t it Cata - ‘Green Jesus’ and Garrosh being “Raagh me Smash!” then leading into MoP which was more Garrosh and making the Horde/Orcs borderline bad guys, and THEN WoD which was even more Raaah Smash and also kinda putting a dent in the whole ‘Orcs had to be cooerced/tricked by demon blood to turn into these bloodthirsty invaders’ because, uh, Grom? Grom, what’re you doing, Grom, stop-

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Still feels weird to see Yrel stand side-by-side with him when he is indirectly responsible for her sister getting killed. ( Okay, Ner’zhul did that, but the Shadowmoon were forced into the Iron Horde at axe-tip, either join or die).

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She did eventually take up arms against him.

One could say she saw the Light.

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There’s a few explanations regarding the size, strength, and absense of the main Empire, the first being that (if my memory is correct) that the group we meet hasn’t been in contact with the main empire for years. Chances are they’ve been battered as much as the rest of Azeroth (though Zandalar and Kul Tiras were both noticably absent of any Scourge/Legion/etc evidence). They may well also just be mighty (by the standards of one character). We seem to know about as much about the Arathi Empire as we do Tel’abim, so it’s extremely ‘here be dragons’ territory, ironically.

It sounds like a piece of folklore than anything else, or maybe some throwaway line to imply the world is bigger than what we see.

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Also, the main example of people talking about orc fatigue I remember is Beta testers complaining about WoD levelling.
Which makes a ton of sense given how in Beta (before Gorgrond was reworked from industrial orc land into Breakers vs. Primals land with some industrial orc land as side thing), every single zone except Spires of Arakk was centered on orcs. It´s something we never experience in previous expansion (or the ones since), every time there were other major factions or at least the bad guys weren´t everywhere and had some variety. Just look at Northrend, it´s THE Scourge continent, and yet it has zones such as Howling Fjord, Grizzly Hills, Scholazar Basin and Storm Peaks with minimal Scourge presence (I don´t count the living vrykul or wolfcult as Scourge even if they were serving it). Meanwhile, 5/6 WoD zones in Beta had orcs as main antagonists. No wonder people felt the fatigue, especially after 13 months of Siege of Orgrimmar.

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The bad- hmm, I can’t even remember of the quality of WoD’s writing anymore… All I remember is that it was quite empty and whatever story arc they had planned for the cast of WoD was so rushed that you felt the expansion had gone through the hyperbolic time chamber.

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Probably a descendant of the green dragon that crossed the storming sea and created her own brood that we learned about in the emerald dream patch.

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