Public crafting orders are ruining special recipes

Gameplay Professions
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TL;DR: Make special recipes unavailable for public crafts.

If I go on the auction house right now, I can see [Plans: Frostfire Legguards of Preparation] being sold for 80k gold, rarely ordered though.
[Plans: Unstable Frostfire Belt] usually goes for over double the price of the leggings, but it is currently sold out so I can’t check, it is ordered constantly.
[Plans: Allied Chestplate of Generosity] 40k gold, despite no one ever ordering it in the first place.
[Plans: Allied Wristguard of Companionship], just like the Frostfire Belt, very sought after, around 150k gold, give or take.

You have spent that much to learn the recipe, yet I can pay 10 gold for a public order and someone will craft me each and every one of those items, in less than 2 minutes, not caring the slightest about making their gold back. Now I, who have spent countless hours and gold in perfecting my armor smithing, am declined on every crafting offer, because I can’t match the price of measly 10 gold public orders.

I’m well aware people can’t put a minimum rank on a public order, but that won’t deter them, because then they can just bring it to the more advanced crafters for a recraft. Why is this a problem? because I get whispers every day demanding that I craft it as cheaply as they made it, because “it makes no sense that I have to pay more than 100 gold to recraft an item I bought for 10 gold, just to get 6 ilvl!” Can I blame them? No, it does make sense that 6 ilvl shouldn’t be that much more expensive than the initial craft itself. The issue lies in the freedom of commissioning for dirt cheap in the first place, and of course you can’t rob them of that freedom, what you CAN do is make special recipes unavailable in public orders. People are so focused on public orders being first come first serve, that they don’t even look at the gold before they craft it.

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Yes you can.
If they don’t care for the 6 ilvl, they can go ahead looking for another crafter who can craft the higher ilvl and not caring about a worthwhile compensation or pass on the upgrade.

Cheap puplic orders trade the knowledge (first craft) or skill upgrade for a better margin.
I doubt people craft expensive recipes for very low budget if they don’t get anything out of it.
If they do - it’s not an issue of public orders, but of wellfare crafters.

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If they don’t care for the 6 ilvl, they can go ahead looking for another crafter who can craft the higher ilvl and not caring about a worthwhile compensation or pass on the upgrade.

This doesn’t solve anything, just because someone took a smaller dump in my food, doesn’t mean I should be satisfied with that.

Cheap puplic orders trade the knowledge (first craft) or skill upgrade for a better margin.
I doubt people craft expensive recipes for very low budget if they don’t get anything out of it.
If they do - it’s not an issue of public orders, but of wellfare crafters.

First of all, people definitely grab low recipes without earning knowledge points, I know because I can see it on the recraft orders I get, that they are crafted by the same players, and I recognize the “customer’s” name from the public order.

Secondly, the welfare issue stems from the public order issue, you don’t grab the snake by the tail and work your way up, you grab it by the head so it doesn’t swing around and bite your butt, there’s no reason to be tackling the gold that crafters receive, rather than the ability to make that public order in the first place, because people will continue to aim for the lowest commission regardless of what the minimum cap is. Unless you meant that it is selfish to charge a commission fee of higher gold, in which case I completely disagree, then you might as well ask the auction house to sell everything for 1 gold, too.

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I don’t see the issue with asking for a bigger commission.
You invested time for the knowledge and passed on other traits and perhaps you even invested in pricy plans. A buyer that does not acknowledge your invesment.
If you upgrade it for close to nothing, because the customer provides all material and a little commision and “that’s better than nothing”, you have the puplic order mindset.

How often did you see the same name? Especially with gear, skill points are a huge benefit. Most professions get 3 skill points for high level gear and have little alternatives.

You probably have a point people won’t regularly offer low budget crafts in trade chat.
But I think many public order buyers would just pass on the system.

Not at all. I pass on public order if they are to cheap even for a few clicks.
I don’t post materials if I think this was not worth my time.
I like crafting and I like to make some margin.

All in all I think the crafting system is to complex and the order system is far from optimal. But I think cutting out the public option would be bad for many players with a more casual approach.

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I think we are misunderstanding each other, I am saying that it is because we have spent so many hours and so much effort, that it is reasonable for us to charge accordingly. I of course do charge in 4 and 5 digits depending on the item, and the ilvl of the item.

How often did you see the same name? Especially with gear, skill points are a huge benefit. Most professions get 3 skill points for high level gear and have little alternatives.

I can only speak for Blacksmithing, in which case you only get 1 point per craft and then it’s done. I see the same names quite often honestly.

All in all I think the crafting system is to complex and the order system is far from optimal. But I think cutting out the public option would be bad for many players with a more casual approach.

I’m not saying that the public orders need to be removed, I believe that recipes obtained through scrolls should not be available in public orders. So anything learned through profession teachers and specializations, would still be available for public crafts. Of course this might not be the only alternative, but I’m for any alternative that takes away the option, to order Frostfire and Allied crafts for 1 gold.

Public orders are undoubtedly making it really difficult for anyone with interest in crafting, to earn any gold. May I remind anyone that reads this, that we have crafted items for the auction house, and for people asking for certain items, throughout every expansion, but we have also been earning gold for it because we set the minimum prices ourselves. Dragonflight has definitely refined crafting and made it easier, more interesting and all in all brought the community closer to it as a whole, but it has also made it more difficult to actually earn gold for the crafts we make, now that the customers set the price. That is why I’m suggesting the compromise of not having scroll recipes appear in public orders.

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Sound like greed speaking.

The Elemental Lariat patern on my realm is around the 1 mill mark for the recipe on AH.

This does not give you licence to charge stupid fee’s to craft one for somone.

If its a public order and you feel its a insult just accept the order and dont complete it, tie up the resources for how ever many hours before it goes back to them.

Btw I have no issues tipping somone to make something decent btw, but I draw the line at tipping around 8k for a lucky craft that took them a moments effort, vs paying 20k+ for garunteed R5 with insight.

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If you think it’s greed speaking, then you’ve ignored 90% of what I’ve said. As for “moments effort”, it didn’t take a moments effort to become able to craft it properly, just because it takes a moments effort to make it for you after all the preparations we have made. Sounds like stinginess speaking.

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Just telling it like it is.

For everyone wanting to charge the average gamer hundreds of thousands per craft, there is another person who is decent and happy to craft for a reasonable tip.

If you dont like it lower your prices and become more competitive.

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The price for some patterns is extremly high.
How is it greedy of the crafters to want their money back within 20-25 crafts (maybe less on small realms maybe more on big realms)? And the investment of several weeks of knowledge to make it 418 comes as an addition.

There are only few spots for competitive crafting of any recipe (on any given realm). I pass on these recipes because I play on a very small realm, I don’t craft many orders because I am not willing to stick in trade chat for most of my playtime and I agree it is realy hard to get your money back on those recipes.
But I don’t think it’s greedy to want your investment back in a realistic amount of time (we don’t know how the recipes work in 10.1.0 and if we can make gold with the patterns).

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If you don’t like it lower your prices and become more competitive.

This proves that you did not even read half of what I wrote. For me to compete against the public orders I would have to lower my prices to 1 gold, if the recipe I bought was worth 200k gold, then I’d have to do 200k orders before I’d make my gold back, minus the 5% commission cut.

This isn’t about making gold, this is about making back the gold we spent on learning the craft, going by your reasoning, we should just go ahead and do crafts out of the kindness of our hearts, as if this is some kind of charity, because that would be oddly convenient for you, wouldn’t it, just telling it like it is.

I believe 99% of crafters who take crafting serious, would like to receive their gold back within the first 50 crafts or so, because you’d likely not make it to above 50 crafts let alone 100, of the same item throughout a year. On top of that, you are insinuating that I am charging ridiculous prices, how much do you think I’m charging?

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Personal order system works fine. I make about 150K on a good day just by reading trade chat and crafting items for other people.

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Then don’t buy it.

You seem to be playing an a low or medium population realm because the prices you listed for recipes are about double or triple those on Kazzak. The belt recipes goes for 95K on Kazzak. The wrist goes for 48K (150K on your realm). the chest goes for 19K (40K on yours).

But let’s say the most expensive recipe you mention goes for 150K. To make gold back with in 50 crafts to ask for 3.3K commission (factoring the consortium cut). This factor the mats you will get from resourcefulness procs which you can sell in AH.

On Kazzak the average commission I ask is around 5K. On your realm I suppose you can ask for more since there are less competitors.

why don’t you tell us instead of making people guess?

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Then don’t buy it.

Irrelevant. I’m not saying to fluctuate prices based on the recipe cost, I’d charge Allied Wristguard the same as Allied Chestplate, even if the wristguard is much more sought after.

But let’s say the most expensive recipe you mention goes for 150K. To make gold back with in 50 crafts to ask for 3.3K commission (factoring the consortium cut). This factor the mats you will get from resourcefulness procs which you can sell in AH.

In other words: still not reasonable to lower my commission fee to 10 gold, to “compete” with the insanely low commission fees of public orders, as the other person suggested.

why don’t you tell us instead of making people guess?

I was clearly being rhetorical, in my response to being accused of overcharging. I don’t want to start bringing up a discussion on what each individual should charge their customers, or give Blacksmiths a forum post to figure out how much they have to undercut each other, so I’m only giving vague implications of what I think is reasonable charging. There’s also the difference in how people handle recrafts and embellishments, some people charge for that, I don’t. ( By recrafts I mean within the same infusion, I would charge a customer if they brought me a 392 item, and told me to recraft it to 418, especially so if the item wasn’t made by me in the first place. )

Personal order system works fine. I make about 150K on a good day just by reading trade chat and crafting items for other people.

Not something every profession can do, not something every sub-specialization can do, and especially not something every server can do.

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You are offering services a public order crafter can’t provide.

  • A min quality guarantee.
  • A promise to recraft the item for free or discount if it doesn’t proc max quality.
  • Timely service. Not a random wait.
  • Possibly offering to crafting max quality with cheaper mats.
  • A min proc chance.
  • Possibility to recraft. Recraft orders CANNOT be public.

A LOT of players are willing to pay extra for such service.

Blacksmiths can definitely do.

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Because you are delusional, thinking 20 to 25 people need to give you the full cost of a overpriced recipe or patern on AH.

No one forced you to buy it.

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Uh hu, lovely job contradicting your own statement.

Crafting this expac is a gold sink, just like legendarys were a gold sink last expac.

Your crying your eyeballs out about not getting to fleece more people and seeing public orders take away gold you think you deserve.

The new public crafting is such a joke your lucky to see 1 order in many profesions and servers. So get over it.

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I guess the issue is our perception of greed and overpriced.
We stretch on the “only a few hundred for 418 recrafts” from the opening post to “hundreds of thousands per craft” from your first statement.
I think the first is not enough and I think the second is too much.

But I think, depending on the recipe and investment into your profession small 4 to small (maybe medium) 5 figures (many crafters offer free recrafts) are acceptable prices.
If it is only the knowledge points from scribes or something similar, smaller comissions are fine for sure.
And this is true for initial crafts with an expectation of a certain quality and for recrafts.

Well,

It’s the task of the crafter to judge if the recipe is overpriced and to judge if the comission is enough for their investment.
On the customer side they should not expect max level gear for close to free.
Everybody has to know for him-/herself.

This is where we disagree.
It is not for you to judge/know what they paid for their initial craft.
For you there is no difference in the investment if you recraft or a craft the base pice on high quality.
If the original crafter wasn’t you promissing free/cheap recrafts you should not do those. If they do not understand the big investment is for high quality crafts they should stick with their low level item.
I pass on those offers, while I won’t charge over the top, I am not charity either (then the customer can spend their time looking for a charity crafter).

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Although I already know what they’ve paid for the initial craft, I don’t pry into it or judge them for it, I even stated that I do not blame people for taking advantage of it, I blame the accessibility for allowing it. I of course charge my unbiased fees regardless of circumstances and prior fees, it’s not like I will charge according to the initial craft just so the overall cost matches, what the common idea of what the initial fee would’ve been.

If they demand cheap recrafts, they’ll have to find another person because I don’t negotiate my already low fees. Which of course means I lose about 10 out of 12 customers a day, which I’m of course not hurt by because I’d get more gold out of doing a low level raid, than accept 100 gold commission fees.

This does not change that it does indeed happen, that I receive whispers demanding cheap or free recrafts, as a byproduct of low public order commission fees. And it’s not like I’m whining about the demand of free recrafts, they only highlighted an issue to me, which is that our earnings are heavily affected by public orders having a bit too much freedom in decisions.

Let me pinpoint my arguments so that everyone understands what I’m getting at.

  • This is not about making huge profits, or avoiding entitled customers.
  • This is strictly about not having diminishing returns.

Edit 1: And for whatever reason, the comment you replied to have disappeared.

Edit 2: I will go ahead and grab the key points of the comment that disappeared.

You are offering services a public order crafter can’t provide.

  • A min quality guarantee.
  • A promise to recraft the item for free or discount if it doesn’t proc max quality.
  • Timely service. Not a random wait.
  • Possibly offering to crafting max quality with cheaper mats.
  • A min proc chance.
  • Possibility to recraft. Recraft orders CANNOT be public.

A LOT of players are willing to pay extra for such service.

This used to be the case, until people found out they could get a cheap craft, and then ask for a just as cheap recraft, then argue that the recraft shouldn’t be any more expensive than the initial craft, whereas they’ll then say we should in fact do it for free because they nearly got the initial craft for free. how would I know? From experience, I get lots of whispers every day wanting exactly that. Do I blame them for taking advantage of the system? No, in fact I encouraged it in my first comment. Do I scold Blizzard for it? No, I think what they have done with crafting is phenomenal, but with every new implementation, there’s bound to be an issue or two, this is simply my feedback and suggestion on how to fix it, without taking much from the general crafter and benefitting the hard working crafters a lot. Think about it, as a general crafter you don’t lose much by missing out on a 100 gold offer, that you’ll likely only manage to grab once or twice a week before somebody else, and if you want a skill point you could easily offer to do it cheaply in trade service chat, just as I did to get ahead of every other crafter when I accidentally went Hammer Control and Tool Smithing first, and was stuck at 65/100 points for a few weeks. Although I doubt general crafters worry much about 1-4 knowledge points, it’s the same as just waiting another week.

Uh hu, lovely job contradicting your own statement.

Crafting this expac is a gold sink, just like legendarys were a gold sink last expac.

Your crying your eyeballs out about not getting to fleece more people and seeing public orders take away gold you think you deserve.

The new public crafting is such a joke your lucky to see 1 order in many profesions and servers. So get over it.

First of all, calm your hostility, this is a civil conversation. Secondly, I’m not contradicting myself, I’m saying crafters first and foremost worry about not having diminishing returns, profitting comes afterwards, but it’s most important that we did not spend more than we received, we are workers, not charity workers. The logic and concept of diminishing returns should reach even you, it’s the very thing that makes every real life company thrive.

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It is still the case in my experience.

Never had someone ask me to recraft/craft for 1gold. I usually ask for 5K. 90% of the time they just agree. When they tell me “it’s a recraft”, I say “5K unless it was crafted by me”. Sometimes they say “Hey dude, it’s already 418, I am just changing a stat”. My response “That would be 5K”.

Sometimes players try to drive the price down to 4K or 2K or whatever. I tell them “fine 2K per attempt, and no free recrafts if no proc” or “4K then 1K per attempt”, or “fine 3K but I won’t use incense and finishing reagents that increase proc chance since those cost gold, so your proc is chance down by 7%”.

Sometimes a player is crating 2 weapons for main hand and offhand and ask for a “bundle discount”. I usually give a 20% discount, and craft both for 8K.

Sometimes, they tell me they will look for a better price, my response would be “that’s fine, have a nice day/evening”. And that would be the end of it.

Sometimes, they say, “hey, craft it for free, and I will tell my guild about you”. I say “5K, and I will mail you 500g for each customer you bring”.

So I have experience with MANY MANY players trying to negotiate a better deal for themselves. I even had one player insult me in Swedish (I used google translate to understand what he said). But I NEVER EVER had a player asking to have a weapon or piece of armour crafted or recrafted for 1g or even 1K.

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So I have experience with MANY MANY players trying to negotiate a better deal for themselves. I even had one player insult me in Swedish (I used google translate to understand what he said). But I NEVER EVER had a player asking to have a weapon or piece of armour crafted or recrafted for 1g or even 1K.

Alright, a bit of a misunderstanding here, I should have went a little more into details.

I get lots of people demanding I craft it for free or say I should craft it for 100-300 gold or they’ll find another. Where the “1 gold” comes into play, is when someone does not even whisper me, but sends me a commission with the commission fee being 1 gold, then tell me to make it, no negotiation on the price.

It could be that my server just happens to act more entitled, but I don’t think that should be relevant to my suggestion about bettering public orders for hard working crafters, in contrast to general crafters, who wouldn’t die to lose out on a knowledge point or two. It wouldn’t be reasonable to keep something flawed, simply because “you lost the server gamble”.

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