It takes an iron stomach, a ton of patience & an unhealthy dose of humility to attempt (& stick with) PvP, in suboptimal gear. Solo. Whilst learning the ropes. In a burst meta. As a non-fotm. With no fix/catchup in sight.
It does breed frustration & toxicity.
…& sadism/schadenfreude/god-complexes(?) “…I enjoy crushing low gear casuals, especially if they whine”
Props if you stick with it.
Wouldn’t blame you if you don’t.
Gear difference doesn’t have to / shouldn’t break the move-countermove ideology underpinning the competitive aspect people expect from PvP/BG’s, though.
Agreed. It depends a lot on what you play. Similar in essence to rainbow rank matches in a moba.
I started with the newbie class of course, hunter. I simply wanted to participate, help, whether it was level 29 WSG or high level Alterac Pass Valley. I used the scoreboard as a metric. Later the same as a healer, it was fantastic training for becoming a healer main raiding during WLK.
It was also tremendous fun to watch for my friend who is a hunter main anyway. Pretty much AV recruited him.
On the other hand, I may have tried paladin or warrior, but especially in AV, just… no. That’s steep.
If it’s not competitive in any way, why anyone cares about power differences? (obviously because whining is easier than gearing a char, but this is still an mmorpg and not a moba)
Yeh same.
I think that’s a great attitude to approach PvP with. Hard to stay enthusiastic sometimes though.
It is (supposed to be) competitive/fair in a bunch of ways. From separating levelling brackets, scaling lower brackets, #healers/tanks, mirrored terrain, equi-distant poi’s/gy’s, through to ~class+spec balance.
Ofc perfect balance is impossible to achieve, but a better experience for more people can be.
Does mmorpg inherently mean PvP should be an imbalanced shtshow?
Did WoW cease to be an MMORPG during Legion & BfA?
Are non-RP realms actually non-MMORPG realms?
To be mmorpg purists, should each bg be >60ppl & involve actual roleplay?
Why anyone cares about convoke? (obviously because whining is easier than gearing a Druid)
We can say both groups consist of 50% of the population.
Now, if Blizz would introduce scaling or any system that reduces the gear difference, that would mean everyone who geares his charater would be upset (50% of the playerbase). It’s the same logic when people cry when Blizz introduces some new catch-up system, it invalidates progress.
In any RPG character power progression is an important aspect.
You work on your character because you want to become stronger. If you’d have the same relative strength regardless the work you put it, why would you put in any work at the first place?
It’s not that imbalabced tho. Also if I remember correctly, there were countless topics on the forum about where should Blizz stick up their scaling, templates and similar ideas.
Hyperbole much?
I mean you can interupt it as well. It’s easier than levelling a druid.
The term MMORPG is ambiguous (there was a thread the other day), but anyway, WoW is the farming / power creep kind of a game and it’s embraced. You grind your advantage out and then you enjoy it.
One glaringly obvious discussion element is ganking.
By now I established myself with horizontal preference, but trying to understand all perspectives.
So does scaling down into levelling bg’s without retaining superpowers. But we accept that form of gimping, in the interest of ~fair play. Atleast, I do.
…& invalidates progress in -what, exactly? Arena? Dragon slaying?
It’s ok for ppl to bg 24/7 for 6months & get insta-crushed by someone who joined yesterday & spammed M+, because we don’t want to invalidate his PvE progress?
Kind of is, though.
Obvs.
Just pointing out the problem with using ‘but mmorpg’ to justify how the game should be, according to how you subjectively interpret it & which aspects you chose to emphasise.
The point was you can justify almost anything that way… -why anyone’s cares about 60’s joining 30’s BG’s & retaining health & superpowers (obviously because whining is easier than levelling to 60, gearing to BiS, forming a premade & joining levelling bg’s & stomping nubs).
Indeed. But if you did bgs in 24/7 for 6 months, most likely you will have better gear / skillset than those that joined yesterday.
I mean we can remove everything till nothing left just one spell for everyone which hits for 1k HP, with an 1s cast time, but that would be really boring.
Not just gear causes imbalance… skill as well. When you invest time in the game, you are rewarded with gear AND skill. Even if you remove the gear, you still need skill to beat an opponent, and if a certain player’s skill is higher than you, you will be crushed.
Do you want to remove skill-cap as well from the game? If not, then you need time to learn your class anyway, so what’s the point removing gear?
It can be subjective to an extent, but RPG comes with character progression usually. There are games on the market, which don’t have that and that’s totally fine. WoW is not like that however.
Argument is getting circular & will take twice as long if we have to keep repeating.
—
tbh, despite being the only content I really enjoyed, I’m willing to drop random bg’s & let them devolve further (disparity is growing worse next patch -great news for you!(?)).
But clearly there’s a (not insignificant) chunk of the player base who are discouraged by insurmountable disparity.
gear scaling / level scaling was the solution and you 'll know it is true.
but you guys also complained to remove it in bfa right?
well now we’re all suffering -_- wether in arena / battleground / rated pvp / alts / mains /world pvp all got ruined.
i wonder what can be done, but right now there are premade teams roaming epic/ random battlegrounds and it’s making it a thousand time worse for mains and alts.
Legion felt like an even playing field, as an unrated player. Hit someone & their hp went down.
Had to work harder to achieve the same thing to overcome the gear gap in BfA, but scaling helped.
-listening to people hate on scaling (‘why can’t I 1-shot nubs!? -tHeSe nUmbERs aRe WRONG!!1!’) kinda knew what the game would be like for undergeared players without it.
…& here we are.
Disparity is insane, even trying to PvP in unrated gear (in unrated games) vs 30+ ilvls is an exercise in futility & frustration.
Luckily Dev’s are well aware of the issues & there’s no fix or catch-up on the horizon.
Play rated or gtfo.
Not really you cant go over 200 ish ilvl from doing bgs unless you do rated on the side while u can do m+ for like 1-4 weeks all day and get above 200 ilvl and you dont really need a skill set to pop an offensive cooldown and burst a low ilvl player
Just so some pathetic failure like you, that could never accomplish anything in his life, beside wasting more time on WoW than others, can feel better, because otherwise he would never win a fair fight?
I guess more people just want a fun and fair game and don’t care for your opinion
Same happened to me, i got temp baned …
apparently Blizz doesn´t like critics who say stuff like
“And i can´t get this Gear myself score UNLESS i invest a ‘bad-F-word’ TON of time to get the rank”
The F-word is not even directed at someone, it´s just there to describe the ‘ton of time’ better
-tHeSe nUmbERs aRe WRONG!!1!’) kinda knew what the game would be like for undergeared players without it.