U can’t push M+ without gear. But drop rates is pretty low, to get gear u must spam M+ 24/7 + u must do raids as another gear source. Plus get luck with drops, sometimes u can do 15-17 M+ dung in a row didn’t get a single peace what u need - there is a tones threads about this. If u think that m+ i ok-sh - play. But i’m done with that in general and will never return untill they revert changes. Played since it was introduced in Legion. Its was interesting mini PvE game, but now they did it like a time wasting/challenge for tryhard raiders who clear full myhtic and they nothing to do.
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I’ve done more rated PvP so far this Season than I did during the whole of BfA. The gear rewards are simply compelling and a strong incentive to do Rated PvP. I think that’s true for many.
PvP sort of avoided that whole reduction in loot that PvE has experienced. You get gear on a consistent basis in PvP, whereas in PvE it’s very reliant on luck. And when people need to invest so much time, it’s natural that you’ll invest the time where the payout is reliable. And it is in PvP.
If PvP is then also fun and enjoyable, then that’s just double up on the greatness.
I am 3/10 heroic , because i raid once a week for 2-3 hours and dont put much effort in it.
As i said if you want change in the gearing system i am up for that i dont like the PvE gearing system too , its very RNG based and very low drop rate… But in terms of skill difficulty, PvP just require much more skill than PvE (except Mythic raiding probably), Pve is much more scripted than PvP … and that’s what i am arguing with… I am not hardcore PvEr thats why i do only PuG groups and thats why i deple keys, if you want to check out my PvE skills you are welcome …
of course Mythic raiding is harden then fighting in 1600 thats why the reward for it is much better … so i dont see your point here
Its relevant because fighting at 1600 rating means that you face less skilled people , the difference in how the arena go on lower and high rating is big exactly because you are facing people not scripted mechanics
But fighting at 1600 is much harder than M+ dungeons especially if you are not S tier class/spec (as you are).
In PvP to get higher rating you need to learn so much stuff about compositions , classes abilities and so on, What is the difference between mythic 10 key and mythic 15 key in terms of tactics and mechanics?
Raiding is hard because there are many people which has to be synchronised with each other and perform the scripted boss mechanics very well . PvP requires different type of skill and often predicting situations where the “being a human” takes a big part, because its not that much scripted
I’ll be honest - I don’t play PvE right now because I don’t enjoy it. You can say “you suck because you didn’t clear +15 and full heroic” but that’s a thing. Playing less arenas and spamming M+/Raids shouldn’t give you benefits in PvP and opposite. Noone should just play PvP to be good in PvE. Why? Because both things require different set of skills. In PvE you maximize your throughput per second and learn tactics for certain encounters. While in PvP you learn to react to certain behaviour of enemy players and learn how to kill someone in kill windows. This is completely different gameplay.
Noone says that clearing +20 keys or Mythic raid is easy because it’s not. Our concern is that clearing heroic raid and doing +10 isn’t as difficult as people claim. If it’s main thing you do you will do it easily. The problem is that such person can instantly queue arena and have big ilvl advantage over someone who invests all his time into BGs and Arenas. This is just demotivating that you practice your spec - you play to improve and suddenly 15 ilvl+ guy comes straight from raid doing missplays but his pressure is just too high for you to outplay him. There are certain specs/comps that can deal with it but some can’t.
Yeah, what i meant is i hope that the gear can function as the stepping stone for people to actually try it out for real.
I was always a bit anxious about playing arena because i heard nightmare stories about LFG and didn’t have any rl friends to queue with, so i started for the gear but stayed for the experience, i honestly haven’t enjoyed wow as much as i am now in a long time, and i hope that the gear aspect of PvP can at least function as an incentive for people who maybe thought that PvP wasn’t for them to actually give it a real try find themselves really enjoying it.
I still don understand the appeal of M+ I guess. It’s just incredibly repetitive. Raiding at least gives you a feeling of team progression
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I said for me it was interesting PvE game, thats u can joing whatever u like.With much less toxic than PvP and progress thru it. Differnet affixes and increasing complexity did it more interesting. And 1 negative issue that i find and was really dissapointed to me is when u close to pre-top or TOP level - class/spec became a really thing and big problem. People just don’t want to grab u or play with u.
It usually does. At least for the first Season of an expansion the Arena participation typically explodes early on, because everyone does everything in the game they can to gear up as quickly as possible. Shadowlands seems no different in that regard.
And then it tends to go down afterward as no one but the dedicated Arena players stick around.
We’ll see if it’s any different this time around. Maybe.
Personally I find it rather repetitive. I can enjoy Arena once a week, maybe for a Season or two, if I’m really feeling for it. Maybe. But to me Shadowlands hasn’t changed the simple gameplay loop that I don’t find all that inspiring.
But maybe others do, or will.
I don’t know why PvE players think that PvP players don’t “farm” arena. Like, why people who supposedly enjoy PvE moan that they have to farm PvE? At least you have infinite (finite as time possible, but infinite from game mechanic point of view - no threshold) opportunities for a drop.
With arena there is a cap for the week and that’s it. Yet, if you look at PvPers stats, a lot of them play thousands upon thousands of games during a season, for rating, for fun, for just playing the game with friends…
And talking about difficulty and progressions…how would you feel if a boss suddenly decides to change tactic in the middle of the raid fight, and you wipe and then you are back 1 boss, and you have to kill the previous one to get again to the one that killed you?
Any semi-intelligent person can learn the patters the bosses do, it’s all about organization of those many people and keeping them concentrated through the long fights. As personal skills, awareness, fast reaction, ability to adapt, to predict enemy actions, knowledge of so many specs…, PvE doesn’t even come close.
I don’t want PvEers to have it worse or anything, not at all, on the contrary, I want them to enjoy the content they like and have fun gearing from it, as it should be for both PvP and PvE.
Yet somehow, I meet in arena PvEers with 3-5k more HP than me, yes they play worse, and we win, but that means they have their worse gameplay covered by their ilvl and we have to go through those to climb rating, and then some guy comes to the forums and states he wants PvPers to have it worse.
This is really so sad.
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Like the people who whined about pvp gear gate at the start of SL this guy also has a valid point.
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“pvp harder than pve except this part of pve”
you posted an idiotic blanket statement and now move the goalpost the second i poke holes in it. especially funny since once again, perceived difficulty is entirely subjective
so let me get this straight: in your opinion pve being scripted matters, even though you just admitted that some pve is harder than pvp regardless of it being scripted? do you not see the contradiction?
??? you can get 1600 doing your dps rotation and nothing else
10 can be facerolled with current gear ignoring most mechanics, timed 15 requires:
-good gear resulting in good dps and healing output
-knowledge of affixes and packs in the instance resulting in a good route
-knowledge of mechanics resulting in a good use of interrupts and stuns, cooldown timings etc
-consumables, but i assume everyone uses these anyway
pushing beyond 15 you will need to do these near perfectly, and after that you may need to swap to better classes or come up with creative strategies. watch any MDI to see this
i play rogue/mage in 2s. me and my rogue have a set strategy against ww/healer teams that works almost every time we don’t mess up. we don’t ever change it bar some minor adjustments. everything the enemy team will do is extremely predictable (because there isn’t much they can). how is this not comparable to a scripted encounter?
i don’t disagree with anything you said here. i wasn’t even talking about gearing in any way, i was just poking fun at the age old “pvp harder than pve” fallacy
I dotn really understand your offensive behavior but okay…
i will try to word myself better this time
In general PvP require much more skill and its harder to learn and get good at than PVE, because
- Its less scripted, meaning that fighting the same thing does not means the same tactic would work;
- much more things to learn - classes , abilities, compositions, positioning on different maps, reading situations, predicting situations, managing cooldowns and e.t.c
I choose bad wording for that you got me, but i hope now you got what i mean
you are playing one of the best if not the best composition in 2s ,the PvP balance is not around 2s. Why dont you try 3s and tell us how it goes.
That’s simply not true… you are playing the most busted ranged class at the moment which 100-0 someone in 1 second. Why dont you try playing DK or DH or MMonk in 2s and see if you will get 1600 with you PvE rotation
yeah ok im done responding since ur only answer is lol u play mage
thats not my answer, i am simply pointing out that you are playing S tier spec with which its easier to get rating with, which is a fact… I am not saying anything about your skills
If that hurts your arrogance … well have a great day then
I even agreed with you that i choose bad wording, but you simply decide to ignore that … i guess there no much point in continuing the discussion
Not gonna go in on anything else, but he is 100% correct. As a dps if you play with an ok-ish healer (or any Prot Pala…), you really don’t need much more than to just tunnel a target to death to reach 1600, especially for melees. DK and DH included.
Well i disagree with that…
I mean as melee you are probably right, but not that much as ranged dps
But it also require much more… for example as warrior you need to use your utility very well too
As healer its much different
And the point which i was trying to make there was that with underperforming classes its not that easy to get rating as S tier classes/specs
As a DK you need a good partner in order to get above 1400, and doing your PvE rotation only will definitely not do the job
hahahahahahahahahaha
So do I. I just wanted to bold the main issue because whenever we try to talk about the fact that PvE rewards have relatively higher item level for easier content people turn it into PvP vs PvE difficulty battle.
Overall that’s not the case of which one is harder but that in PvE for relativly easier content players are provided with better/more rewards. Noone claims that in long run PvP gear isn’t better. It seems it’s done on purpose so PvE players can get their rewards early while PvP players will take over the ladder later. I’m not talking about top ladder players but just normal PvP players.
i am not sure what’s so funny, i see you are mage, which have much better survivability than a DK