My point is it still heavily relies on rng, and by playing more hours of pvp instead of doing pve, you get worse gear FOR PVP because you cant upgrade further/have more conquest
3 Likes
And do you see him complaining about this on the forums? No, since this difference doesnât matter to these players, because it is too small and will almost never be the main reason you lost a match.
Also, the longer this season runs, the smaller the difference will get, since we can (as described above) target-buy the items we donât get from the rng vault. In a few weeks every 2100 player will have a guaranteed ilvl of 215+ just from vendor items + Honor upgrades, without doing any sort of PvE.
I really donât see any reason why we should already be at 210+ right now (which we could be with OPs changes) 3 weeks into the Season, by just doing one form of content.
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I like how the loot system is, itâs compact and it offers you many rewards unlike the randomized system that BFA was, and the fact that is a slow process in building your characterâs gear.
In my opinion the conquest cap is good how it is right now.
3 Likes
Totally agree on this topic. I had to do quite a lot of PvE already just to be able to line up a bit more, even though it wasnât anything too impressive. And as well I read somewhere, that Blizzard intended to let people gear up in similar pace from PvP/Raids/M+, but so far it doesnât look like similar pace, fact is that if you grind m+, you can gear up way faster, while in PvP you have clear limits of things that you can obtain - either from timegating or the fact that conquest cap is pretty low. So even though perfect balance canât be made in this - because always something will be faster or slower and people who will play various content will (and probably should) have at least slight advantage. Fact is though, that this seems to be a bit too far off.
2 Likes
since honor gear is capped at 184 and mythic + is capped at 210 you can see the difference dont you?
PvPer right now have a maximum of 4 or 5 conquest parts(fewer if saved for weps) and the rest of the gear still sits at 184 ilvl which forces even HIGH RANK PvPer to farm pve to stay competetive.
I know this problem will vanish in like 2 months when everyone has full conquest but if a system doesnt work in the first 2 or 3 months of the season than the system is bad. Thats it.
6 Likes
Thatâs the main point - not if someone can or canât push but some people donât understand whatâs the main point of discussion. Itâs just unfair and we donât say thatâs impossible - itâs just not fair. I donât think that killing AI should benefit you in any way in PvP combat.
But you donât. If you want to gain a small advantage, sure, but not just to stay competitive.
The top ranked 3v3 players are mostly betweem Ilvl 195-205, with a few exceptions havig higher or even lower ones. I am well within that range (and havenât done anything this week yet) and my only >184 item from PvE is the freeby from last weeks 4xM0 quest, rest is all PvP. So tell me again, how is PvP gearing not âcompetitiveâ in your opinion?
Edit: Noticed I posted on my alt. The main Pally I was talking about is at 197 right now.
It isnât unfair, itâs just a completely different system. Hell, for M+ players itâs exactly the opposite, they think our gearing system is superior (which it is in the long run) and unfair.
While PvE players can get the first few iLvls pretty fast by just spamming M+, their gear progression will slow down alot at some point. Targeted farming for a single BiS item is very rng based and can take weeks, there are no guarantees at all.
We might start of just a little bit slower, but with the vendor we can cherry-pick items we are still missing and will 100% get the items we want in the end. Additional rng based drops from the vault speed up that process.
The difference between a fully PvP geared arena player and a fully PvE geared player doing M+ or Raids at a similar level isnât bigger than 10 right now and it will only get less. The dudes with 210+ are all doing multiple forms of content, so itâs just fair that they also get better gear faster.
3 Likes
since pvp scaling is removed int and stamina are very important and the difference between 190 and 205 ilvl is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge its not a small advantage.
yes and top ranked players play pve in order to stay competetive.
its a different system and a bad system since pvpers are forced to pve in the first 2 months. after that the system pvp gearing is nearly perfect but 2 months is too long. Why should a pver have an advantage over an pvper if he spams m+ all day and the pvper spams arena all day?
i dont think its the end of the world because the system is 100x better than bfa but its not even close to WoD, MoP etc. gearing.
Why players should not be rewarded for doing different content? You all know how the system works, so it is up to you to adjust your play according to your goals in the game.
Imo the drawlines between pvp and pve only exist in the minds of the players. Nothing stops you from doing all.
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It would have been fair if the potential upgrades you could have from varied gameplay hovered around 10-15% as it had in the classic expansions. 15-30 item levels, however, which is the actual difference right now, is closer to the BfAids power gap and needs to be narrowed, either in the ways I have mentioned or by other reliable means.
The fact that it will only narrow with time doesnât give us much satisfaction if it happens halfway into the season after being left behind for so long, nor does the fact that PvE upgrades begin to slow down as you get more gear affect PvE players in the same way. The two situations arenât comparable. I wouldnât mind grinding a bit more to get my last 2-4 pieces as the only way that happens is because you already got most of what you need by progressing in a manner that befits the amount of time and effort you are willing to put in.
So long as itâs slow and unfair, itâs an issue when someone else dictates the pace for you. Speeding up PvP gearing is a must, no question about it; and so far 42 people agree.
It means gearing sucks and it not working as it should both ways. Give us PvP stat/PvP scaling (WoD wise) back and problem is solved. Thatâs what most people giving feedback were saying for last few years. I donât want to do any PvE like PvE player doesnât need to do any PvP. Also an argument that my gear will be superior in 1-2 months is just stupid because I pay to play the game now and I was able to play only PvP for years and doing multiple things is the case only since BFA. Thatâs why I have my standards set to expansions pre BFA crap.
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Considering the fact that blizz puts less and less effort into the game with every expansion, I bet its going to be more than 6 months, because why notâŚsheeps will pay for it anyway.
This was so obvious to happen, I canât believe Blizzard didnât see this coming.
- Make Versatility the PvP stat
- Put Versatility on tons of PvE gear
- ???
- PvP is now dominated by top PvE players
Idk Iâm not too much into the reasons why a PvP only stat like âPvP Powerâ doesnât make sense anymore, but to me it seems that it would have fixed this issue easily beforehand instead of making Versatility the PvP stat.
Simply replace the Versatility stat with PvP Power in PvP scenarios, make them behave the same, but make Versatility worthless in PvP contexts. Easy fix. Other way around PvP gear is then also worthless in PvE scenarios (Dungeons, Raids), which is fine too.
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He is complaining about it, only he does it on stream and not on forums bc he thinks blizz dont care about arena forums unless asmongold or smth react to it.
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It is unfair.
Excuse me? PvErs already have 215+ ilvl, PvPers have ~196 ilvl (fully geared PvPers with optimized usage of vault/Conquest).
Thatâs 20 ilvls, not 10. And not to mention at the highest levels PvErs already have ~220 ilvl, thatâs 25 ilvl.
Yeah and by the time the ~15 or so weeks it will take for PvPers to get their BiS set theyâll have been getting destroyed by PvErs for so long that they already quit.
Just looking at my arena partner who hasnt even cleared HC yet heâs 210 ilvl, thatâs 14 more ilvls than me.
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Do you mean replacing Versatility on PvP gear with PvP Power, or do you mean that Versa should transform into PvP Power in PvP settings? Because the latter wouldnt solve anything.
Replacing Versatility on PvP Gear with PvP Power of course. 
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- Duplicate the Versatility stat and name it âPvP Powerâ
- Put PvP Power on PvP Items instead of Versatility, Versatility remains on PvE Items
- Make Versatility useless in Arena & BGs, make PvP Power useless in Dungeons, Raids. Make both PvP Power and Versatility act like Versatility currently does in outdoor scenarios, so that PvP Gear can be used for questing etc.
Am I not seeing anything here? This seems so easy to me and would eliminate having people to do content they donât want to play in the first place.
I mean it probably doesnât make sense to implement this now anymore and it wonât be implemented for sure, because PvP players will eventually catch up in the next 3-4 weeks anyways. But maybe a system to implement for the next season or addonâŚ
Or why not PvP Versatility 
Or just significantly reduce the effectiveness, by like 50% or so. That makes it considerably âworseâ but not completely useless.
Well, PvP Power (or whatever itâs called) must be powerful enough to bridge the gap between Honor gear ilvl and Conquest gear ilvl. Otherwise players will gear with PvE gear instead of Honor gear in the early phase. Moreover, PvP Power needs to be strong enough such that it outweighs any PvE effects, â2 last bossesâ extra ilvls and stat itemizations. Otherwise people will gear with PvE gear at BiS stage.
Basically PvP Power needs to be strong enough to be mandatory in instanced PvP.