Playing lock in classic on a pvp realm and it is luck nothing more .
You are rude and arrogant nothing more to be said sorry .
i played vanilla got rank 14.
I played classic, realised its nothing like vanilla was, actually just worse and waste of time.
i play retail mostly and i enjoy somewhat (more than classic wich i hoped not sadly) but i did learn to appreciate the quality of life changes over the years,
but i still want some vanilla aspects to stay in retail wich it seems like shadowlands is going to offer.
all in all. I think playing a warrior in retail vs classic.
retail requires more skill and outsmarting your oponent than classic, but it is still limitied to rock paper scissors like its always been.
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if you get offended by the way some random person on the internet talks to you or someone else, I don’t think you add anything valuable to the conversation anyways.
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You havent made a decent point in your thread since it started.
There is no skill in classic/vanilla pvp at all hence the orc and undead players in classic atm . Its rng luck based combat and if you cant handle that being said your posting on wrong forums.
Your thread would have better placed on pvp forums or classic forums not here in GD were its a thin attempt at classic is better than retail bait.
You call it “bait” but with your forum “experience” if I may call it like that for now should know best that 1.) the PvP forums basically don’t get any attention and 2.) in the classic section I obviously would only get messages like: I agree with your post, go Classic.
If you really think this post was at any point about praising classic, you are mistaken.
I tried to get a constructive discussion started with people interested into the topic, you for your part only stated stuff without actually bringing any proof or example why the combat is so much more “rng” and “luck” based compared to retail.
but you actually made me realize that I should think twice the next time I post something on the general discussion Forum because there will be people like you who try to push their personal agenda onto everything without really thinking about it objectively, so I guess that’s a “success” for you if you will.
to me retail and classic are both far from perfect games, sometimes they manage to entertain me for a bit and both have their ups and downs, but classic has kind of the excuse of being a 15 year old game what excuse does retail have ?
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Ofc it is if a orc warrior gets first hit in or an undead rogue its game over in classic . You have to be very lucky to beat no skill classes like that. Even being an engineer doesnt help or having a pvp trinket .
Your arrogance and you being obtuse amuse me you just dont like the answers you are giving. So resort to snarky comments.
I don’t like the answers I am giving ?
It’s ok dude you won, retail PvP = more complex than classic.
Iam a bit confused. For example as warrior. You get hit by frost bolt in classic, you can’t charge anymore and you have lost
You get stunned by a rogue and you lost
You get doted by a warlock and you lost
Where is now the part with the thinking ? Next time be the faster one ? That doesn’t sound for me like it’s skill full or deep
But iam a noob 
maybe you can make a more clear example for us who are not to deep into classic pvp :>
as I already said: alone the fact that you have to go into berserker stance basically as soon you get into mortal coil range makes the warlock - warrior encounter more complex than it is on retail.
If you don’t do that you die 90% of the time if the lock isn’t completely braindead.
then with rogues, yes a good rogue who really tryhards to beat you 1v1 is probably going to win most of the time but I come across those rarely in a BG.
Most rogues can be beat with a simple use of a trinket, they are pretty squishy especially against warriors after all.
and against mages sure, you lose 99% of the time if he know what hes doing but I like classes having their hard counters in the game.
Sorry I may be confused. Don’t warrior blade storm coils / reflect it / heroic leap to get out of range while stunned / switch deff stance to block damage and so on atleast equally as skill full ?
No really, maybe in high lvl play but since we are talking about casual pvp, 95% of the warrior - lock encounter look like charge>get coiled>either trinket out of coil or just wait until he casts his fear and bers rage out of it.
also coil is way harder to predict on retail than it is on classic means most people don’t even try to reflect it because the lock has a lot of defensives and sustain and wont die within a few seconds like it is the case with classic.
as I said I like the rewarding and equally punishing playstyle of casual classic PvP.
warriors who don’t anticipate the coil coming are basically dead where if you don’t anticipate it on retail you are maybe 20% of health behind compared to the one who did.
But if we are talking really casual ? Than wouldn’t it be fair to assume that in classic the warrior also don’t use any abilities ?
And if you trinket coil , into the rage, what stop the lock from just using shadow furry into the next fear into burst ?
Iam really sorry if I may sound weird , it just sounds so odd for me that pressing one button is counted as a complex move making the whole pvp more complex.
Basically by what you say , pvp is complex when you get one shoted if you don’t press the button , but can one shot if you do ?
How many keybindings do you need for 3-5 globals?
don’t really get you here
coil and fury are on the same talent row so you can only have one.
for this niche example yes, it clearly rewards the players who just think 1 step ahead and punishes the ones who doesn’t.
Don’t you mean it rewards the player who just knows the counter? That’s not really complex. It’s like saying scissor rock paper is complex because it is fast and the one who reads the other better wins
I would say one of the biggest problems with PvP is that dps have way too much self healing.
In my opinion all dps should lose their self healing beside classes in which their identity depends on the self heal. Like retribution paladin having their flash heal, dps shaman with their healing wave and other classes with similar abilities.
Classic pvp is much faster paced and dps classes have no self heals. Which makes mistakes much more visible unlike retail. Supplementing mistakes with a self heal making you think you did nuffin wrong.
Too much defensive and healing abilites gives the players the possibility to play in tunnel vision. As mistakes doesn’t really matter therfore people don’t know how to improve.
Blizzard think that forgiving mistakes makes the game more casual. It is actually the opposite. As other factors start playing a much bigger role than just your gameplay.
Mistakes should matter how else should you feel good when you have overcome your shortcomings.
rock paper scissors literally is a complex game because it revolves around trying to read the other person’s mind/psyche.
I think this is mostly true but even many defensives/utility/self healing abilities can be implemented correctly, MoP was the perfect example for that, the combat almost never felt slow or boring in my opinion and I played many classes during that expansion.
but we are talking about MoP blizzard vs current which is clearly not the same as it was back in the day so yea.
however I don’t think pruning should ever be a option because we lost so many of our spells already.
You mean spells which didn’t even exist in classic yet ? Classic is like pruned retail
dude what’s your problem ?
Have I ever said I liked the class design of vanilla ?
you are probably one of those " I hate everyone who talks negatively abut retail " guy’s, just like I feel like 90% of those people who sit on the G/D forums daily.
at this point you are trying to make me look bad with putting word’s in my mouth.
both versions, retail and classic are pruned compared to MoP/Cata, difference being classic was the starting point of the game and BfA it’s current end product and as you said those spells didn’t even exist at that point in classic therefore people won’t feel bad because they lost abilities they were using for years.
use your brain a little
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Classic seems to be less forgiving regarding mistakes than retail, but is that really a problem? I don’t think so, MMO PvP is mostly about fun and not meant to be super competitive like Starcraft/LoL/Dota/Overwatch/CSGO.