Quel’dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race - 2024 (Part 1)

Community General Discussion
3865

I do regard them as fanatical, but I regard any suggestion to add Alliance High Elves, who are basically Blood Elves, as fanatical. In the name of this cause they are quite happy to argue for damaging Void Elves by trying to turn them into a vector for a Blood Elf duplicate (we need a new nameplate saying High Elf, and non void racials…) regardless of how genuine Void Elf fans may feel, ignore the damage to faction diversity and by being happy to try and undermine Blood Elf legitimacy (yes you have the city, the sunwell, the paladins, the magisters, the Farstriders and the kingdom BUT if you mouse over me it says ‘High Elf’ so that makes me the real mccoy).

Changing the Blood Elf faction is merely the extreme end of the argument, but why should I single those folks out when the entire argument is fanatical in the extreme?

3866

Some strong grasping at straws energy that whomever you replied to has. Lmao

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3867

This is revisionism. You’re taking a significant chapter of lore and refusing to acknowledge it’s existence. Or at least, slapping a label that erases that chapter.

You might as well say that Taiwan has no claim to Chinese history, or that Greece doesn’t have any history at all because a good chunk of it’s lands are Turkish today. Are you going to agree with Putin that Ukraine isn’t a country too?

The current blood elf regime under lor’themar is but one chapter in the entire history of quel thalas and the high borne that migrated from kalimdor after the war of the ancients. If you’re going to willfully ignore these important parts of lore, you can at least admit that you don’t care about it. Most people who play this game don’t

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3868

They posted an AI-generated wall of text. And referred to LLMs as prophetic angels, that proved their point about how we’re never getting High Elves.

No joke.

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3869

Oh lordy. Hahahahah

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3870

It’s not AI generated. It’s just fact.

We’re not getting a separate race for playable Amani. That nonsense needs to stop right now and ideas around that also need to stop.

So, playable High Elves aren’t going to come with playable Amani. Period. End of. Stop the nonsense.

What I long suspected is that if we get playable High Elves, it will be an Elf and Elf allied race. Not Elf and Troll.
Many High Elf fanatics didn’t want to believe me, but it just goes to show…I am partially right, once again.

3871

I think he meant Gabriela’s “naaru” post asking each chatbot how likely high elves would be added

Now, if I did the same thing with my biases and posted their generates answers that “high elves will happen” as a fact, you would rightly call me delusional

As much as I think amani would be a good pair, I think san’layn would also work. But aren’t dark fallen customisations already a thing

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3872

Well that’s where the counter argument comes in, with “High Elf features are already a thing.”

3873

Dude. Did you take the time reading what they were replying to? The poster themselves spoke of “addressing the IRL Naaru” of Chatgpt, Grok.ai and something else. :)))))

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3874

Hey I’m not opposed to a san’layn ar or more customisations… And I would also argue that just as how void elf customisations are incomplete, blizzard could go further with the san’layn/undead elf options

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3875

How is it revisionism?

You have two options.

If you continue to claim High Elves have a ‘rich lore’ you have to accept that the vast majority of that is shared with the Blood Elves. Furthermore, the Blood Elves have a stronger claim because they control the Kingdom of Quel’thalas, are a much bigger chunk of the population and are playable.

If you are trying to argue High Elven lore is distinct from Blood Elven and Blood Elves have no claim, you are wrong BUT to be internally consistent you can only go back to the moment of their exile from Quel’thalas. And the sum total experience of that exile is one purge and most of their remaining settlements getting blown up.

And yes, the current Blood Elf chapter of the the history is Quel’thalas is but one chapter in the history of the kingdom. But to complete the metaphor, the Alliance High Elves are but a footnote in that chapter.

3876

What double standards? They would never :joy:
Ill see you all in a couple days cant be living in this thread. Have fun :kissing_heart:

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3877

It’s revisionism to deny that High Elves do not have lore because the current rump government of exiled Quel’dorei do not control Quel’thalas. Just because you’re not part of the establishment doesn’t mean your heritage gets taken away and erased.

In 1949, the Republic of China was driven out of Mainland China and set up in Taiwan. It has been referred to as the Republic of China since. Now, there are people who say that the People’s Republic of China is the true successor to China’s legacy, but there are plenty of old Chinese customs, artifacts, and culture that survived in the rump ROC that did not in the PRC.

Likewise, the former Soviet states outside of Russia are very frustrated that Russia claims all the credit for defeating the National Socialists in WWII, which glosses over the sacrifices of many men and women from Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Belarus, and other states from the former USSR.

I never argued that the Blood Elves did not have a rich lore, and they can trace their lineage back to the Highborne, but riddle me this:

Lor’themar was a High Elf, now he’s a Blood Elf.
Liadrin was a High Elf, now he’s a Blood Elf.

but

Vereesa was a High Elf, and is still a High Elf.
Auric Sunchaser was a High Elf, and is still a High Elf.

The incumbent regime in Quel’thalas can claim its heritage, but not all of it. Just as how Chiang Kai Shek was not part of the PRC’s founding, neither can Alleria and Vereesa be considered part of the Blood Elf heritage when both are still staunchly standing with the Alliance against the Horde. If Alleria was a Blood Elf, then what is a statue of this “Blood Elf” doing in the front of Stormwind?

the Alliance High Elves are but a footnote in that chapter.

That footnote spanned three games, not counting World of Warcraft. Also, would you consider the Purge of Dalaran a footnote?

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3878

I have to point out once again that this is a fantasy world and that part of the reason we are having this dispute is because of gameplay systems namely faction diversity that don’t apply in the real world. Your overall point however fails. For one thing there is no high elf government in exile. That is something you literally made up. The few Alliance High Elves we have seen live in Human cities under Human government. And two of those three cities have been destroyed. The only Alliance high elf organization of note is the silver covenant and that is not an exiled government. That is a paramilitary organization primarily but not entirely composed of former farstriders ( headed by a ‘ranger general’ and inducted into the hunter class hall during legion). It is not an alternative. This tiny grouping of exiles does not have a claim to the lore of the Blood Elves in the fashion that you are arguing. Blood Elves are high elves. High Elven lore became blood elven lore the moment the vast majority of the people after to change their name. So I say again Alliance high elves only have a rich lore if you account for all of the history of quel’thalas and which is far more rightfully the lore of the Blood Elves. By themselves they have very little with the one incident of note being that purge. And yes it is literally a footnote in the history of the race and of the game. It’s not even going to get much focus in the coming expansion pack despite being the supposedly biggest incident between the Blood Elves and the exiles in the game history as confirmed when the developers were directly asked about it.

3879

US Azsharion with a new clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UoGE1LIqsc

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3880

Blizzard let Void Elves be Demon Hunters in order to differentiate them from the upcoming High Elves. Now there’s still a reason to pick the ‘edgy’ version.

That’s why the Nightborne didn’t get the class at this time. There’s no upcoming race from which to differentiate them.

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3881

I have to point out once again that this is a fantasy world and that part of the reason we are having this dispute is because of gameplay systems namely faction diversity that don’t apply in the real world

A believable story is grounded in reality. While people are free to tell stories as they see fit, there are rules, societies, logic, and other things that the real world offers that fantasy often draws upon.

Warcraft’s inspiration, Warhammer Fantasy, is one such example. A dev was able to make the races relatable by drawing similiarites with the culture. The dwarves are like the Northern English, the High Elves are the Posh English. The rivalry between the High and Dark Elves of that story is like that between Greece and Sparta.

If a story has no ties to reality, then either it’s a venture into surreal fiction, or it isn’t believable.

I’ll admit that “rump government” was used rather loosely and not literally. But when a group of people who disagree with the incumbent regime go somewhere else and form a group of people based on that disagreement, what would you call that? The fact that Vereesa Windrunner is called “Ranger-General” implies continuity that the Silver Covenant (which, while not a government, still is a faction just like the Army of the Light and Highmountain Tauren) still draws upon Quel’dorei traditions. Traditions that the Sin’dorei also claim, but cannot claim exclusivity over.

The few Alliance High Elves we have seen live in Human cities under Human government

I would say that the French and the Polish governments were living in London after both countries fell to the Germans in the Second World War, but you’re probably going to paper that over and say “that doesn’t count!” too.

That is a paramilitary organization primarily but not entirely composed of former farstriders ( headed by a ‘ranger general’ and inducted into the hunter class hall during legion)

Ok, so Vereesa helped out some Hordie Hunters in Legion. But did you know that Liadrin was fighting side by side with Alliance Pallies as well?

So I say again Alliance high elves only have a rich lore if you account for all of the history of quel’thalas and which is far more rightfully the lore of the Blood Elves

So, should I call up the stonemasons in Stormwind and ask them to move the statue of Alleria Windrunner to Silvermoon? It won’t be cheap.

In all seriousness though, I likewise say again that Blood Elves do have a history, but they can’t claim all of it. Alleria may no longer be welcome in Silvermoon, but she is still from Silvermoon, and fought for Quel’thalas. That can never be taken away. Ditto for Vereesa and the Silver Covenant. You may deny that they belong to silvermoon now, but you cannot take away what they have done in the past.

By themselves they have very little with the one incident of note being that purge. And yes it is literally a footnote in the history of the race and of the game.

You’ve never played Warcraft II, haven’t you? Shame. Let me know when your birthday is so I can buy you a copy, you’re missing out!

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3882

The parallels with the real world only go so far. Firstly, this is a game where a giant space God drove a sword into the mantle of the planet. Secondly, character motivation is wildly inconsistent with people changing personalities depending on what the plot demanded of them (Jaina Proudmoore being among the worst examples and Danath Trollbane being a recent example). The internal consistency and discipline is not there to overly justify real world parallels.

As for what I would call a group of people who disagree with an incumbent regime and go elsewhere, what are they called? That’s easy, and is an example of where real world parallels may make more sense. They are called exiles. Or traitors depending on your point of view. What is important is that an exile/traitor does not get to claim a monopoly over the heritage of their people. The political differences perish in time, the nation endures. This is why the Alliance High Elves are ultimately a footnote, they’ve already taken multiple blows SINCE their exile and the likeliest legacy they will leave is probably a few Half Elves.

As for the real world example of previous governments in exile…they don’t count. Those were governments in exile who claimed to be the rightful representatives of their people. Nobody questions the legitimacy of the current government of Quel’thalas. Again, you are over hyping a small band of exiles and dissidents.

Liadrin is a high ranking member of the Blood Elf government of course, and her Blood Knight order is very much understood to be an arm of that government. The Silver Covenant is not a government, it is a paramilitary organisation that apes the Farstriders (the Ranger equivalent of the Blood Knights and the Magisters). I mean it is not difficult to figure out where the Silver Covenant came from. A lot of Farstriders enjoyed spending time away from Silvermoon and the isolationism of the vast majority of the High Elf race, they were the ones who interacted the most with the Alliance. When the split came and they were exiled, they set up an organisation in Dalaran led by Veressa BECAUSE Veressa’s husband led the Kirin Tor at the time and titled her Ranger General, aping the Farstriders. The few High Elf Mages remaining in the city and who had chosen Dalaran over their own Prince allied with the Silver Covenant, and over time a few others of other classes did the same. At its core, a Hunter organisation but broader…in fact it is probably broader as there aren’t enough members of the other classes to justify separate organisations (with the likely exception of Mages though only because they had the Kirin Tor). More a society of exiles.

Blood Elves CAN claim all of that history. As I demonstrate above, the Alliance High Elves are a group of dissidents and exiles. Like it or not, they are dissidents and exiles to the Kingdom of Quel’Thalas. They aren’t on their own journey, they are in exile because of their reaction to the Kingdom’s new path and they dream that they can get their brethren to ‘see reason’ even if in their heart of hearts they know that isn’t possible.

And any actions Alleria or Veressa took before the split and before their exile are a part of the Blood Elven legacy as well because they were done when they served Quel’thalas, even if Alleria was headstrong and a bit defiant.

I played Warcraft 2 decades ago. Please don’t be so condescending. The difference is I accepted the linear narrative the game writers told of how the High Elves became the Blood Elves, left the Alliance and joined the Horde. You couldn’t accept that narrative and are instead trying to argue a tiny group of exiles are the true representative of that tradition, when they are not. This is what I call absolutist headcanon, an attempt to impose how you feel the game should be onto how the game actually is.

3883

What a great post. Well done.

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3884

I would agree that there is no governmental body for the exiles, the silver covenant is an arm of dalaran if anything, it also goes against the claims of blizzard themselves when they say that the High Elves simply do not have the numbers or organization that could lead to a continuation of the High Elves as a branch of from the Blood Elves.

That being said, I will admit that the silver covenant is the closest thing the high elves have to being organized, as per the description of the silver covenant of wowwiki, assuming it is correct (followed one to many wowwiki sources in the past only to find out the source often didn’t match claims)

Their end fate is probably displayed by what the TWW Arathi look like today.

I just do not see any lore that would suggest otherwise, but I am open to it if others can show me, as always.

All history before the exile is shared between both branches of Thalassian elves for the simple reason of, they share ancestory. The divide wasn’t one of blood, it is possible that brothers were divided by this choice, does that mean one of them suddenly no longer has parents because their heritage suddenly does not exist? ofcourse not.

If you ask a high elf and a blood elf wether they descend from the Highborne empire, they will both say yes.

When you ask a high elf and blood elf who led their ancestors across the ocean to the eastern kingdom, they will give the same name.

When you ask a high elf and blood elf wether their ancestors fought against the Amani tribes for a right to a home, they will both say yes.

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