Quel’dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race - 2024 (Part 1)

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4012

Depending on how you read the text, there were more besides Mehlar. The exact quote from Blood of the Highborne is “Mehlar Dawnblade, one of Uther’s men (…)” - in the context of the Scourging, and him reaching out to assist Vranesh. You can read it however you like, whether the “men” part refers to other Elven Paladins of whom Mehlar was a part of having returned or not.

That’s exactly what the mainline Alliance Paladin is though, isn’t it? A Silver Hand Paladin - who generally and typically are composed from Humans which was then taught onto Dwarves, and a few High Elves as I’ve highlighted so far. Idk why there’d need to be brand new lore about “High Knights” or w/e you wrote.

When genuine and more importantly, warranted, sure. Otherwise it’s being facetious - which it seems you’re very good at. Given how you are pulling things out of nowhere up until now. And say that you’re not lying all you want, you’re very much lying up until this point, I’d feel ashamed if I were you. :slight_smile:

Would you believe me if I told you that A. Void Elves don’t actually mind the Light anywhere as much as your headcanon might lead you to believe. B. They’ve made use of the Light already since BfA through NPCs, and even moreso since DFlight. C. There’s a Void Elven Paladin, which is summoned by the Sunwell to protect it.

You also haven’t answered the question of what other class is there to be added for Void Elves? That would be deserving of pity.

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4013

I agree that High Elf Paladins likely existed before the Blood Knights but I don’t necessarily think they should be added for Void Elves.

Leonid Barthalomew is an Undead Paladin, but we don’t have Undead Paladins as a playable option.

Similarly Delas Moonfang is a Night Elf Paladin, but we don’t have Night Elf Paladins as a playable option.

These NPCs were not precursors to the addition of these options, but merely exceptional individuals who can do what none of their race can.

It seems our Void Elf Paladin is probably that, an exceptional individual unrepresentative of the wider race. It maybe felt behind the scenes that explaining the apparent contradiction would be too much trouble for the average player.

As for what else can be added to Void Elves, nothing else really. Only a Paladin can be suggested because it is the only one that even has an example. Shamans and Druids and Evokers just don’t make sense.

After Demon Hunters, the next class Void Elves will probably get is whatever the 14th class that is added to World of Warcraft. A developer said after Evokers were added they felt that recent classes (DHs and Evokers) were too ‘exclusive’ in what races could play them.

My guess is Bard. BG3 gave that traditional class a lot of attention in wider fantasy gaming, the Evoker has already pioneered a support role that could make sense for a Bard spec, and there was some fake survey a while back that suggested Bards could be powered by the radiant song, which is too good an idea not to steal.

4014

in your case, it is impossible “in short” :grimacing:

If you’re going to talk about spam, let’s talk about your pointless graphomania and spam about denying the existence of High Elves and all the facts that other players have presented to you :tipping_hand_woman:

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4015

Please, I have found over the years that being able to speak at length and in detail have been bonuses. If folks have difficulty following that and need brevity then that’s on them.

And nobody has presented facts, in particular you have not presented facts. You have dressed up your head canon and demanded the game be bent to accommodate you.

It is nobody else’s problem that the story told is not the one you have in your head. And as for your complaints that ‘we’ve waited 21 years!’…well, that was self-inflicted, nobody told you to do that. The length of time you have waited does not mean Blizzard owes you something, again, that is entirely self-inflicted. Most people would have taken the hint, and there is no virtue in stubborn persistence.

You’ve essentially admitted you’ve waited a quarter of a human life time. That’s actually sad.

4016

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but Keith Riley responded to someone on X that if you feel passionately about wanting something in a game, you are well within your rights to ask for it.

“I think the best way is to continue expressing your interest in seeing those races one day” are his exact words.

https://x.com/Boogily_Woogily/status/1975314604122423723

So I’ll continue asking for high elves until they are added one way or another

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4017

I’ll firmly support you on that quest :heart:

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4018

At last, the source. I saw it portrayed in another thread as a actively dev exhorting folks to advocate specifically for Alliance High Elves, but it is nothing of the sort.

It’s a generic answer to a generic question which does nothing to address all the problems Alliance High Elves have and why they aren’t playable. It’s effectively the same as Ion’s ‘Anything is possible in future’ coda to his 2018 answer pro High Elf folks latched onto with gusto as the last sliver of hope. Seven years ago.

And of course, the clock is ticking on the thalassian elf expansion. 12.0 is already on the PTR, you’ve two realistic chances left (as it would be a major patch item) to get movement and that movement won’t come from pressure here, it will have to have been decided ages ago so that they can be building the introductory content for it and the Horde equivalent. In other words this will have already been decided, you are just hoping there is a big reveal due at some point even though the omens are incredibly poor on that.

Though with speculation that 12.1 is going to be heavily Troll themed given the datamined land is, well, more Zul’Aman you may have to pin your hopes on the final patch which is well over a year away.

4019

Obvious questions get obvious answers and honestly if you’re going to come at me instead of my arguement its probably best we stop engaging.

4020

With all due respect. You’re the one that’s telling me - a Void Elf main - that somehow it’s against my interest to get Elven Paladins as a playable class. Because apparently there’s some other class out there that I’d want more. If you don’t think that’s condescending and rude, I don’t know what else is.

All the while decrying how you’re totally a ‘fence sitter’ - but all you’ve done since I’ve first seen you is counter-signalling against the addition of High Elves - for people who frankly want them and would benefit from their addition. Atleast Erevien and Kaeros are honest in their reasoning, rather than hide around the pretext of good faith.

And then you kept denying that there’s precedent for High Elven Paladins for a few posts ad-infinitum - because apparently they’re not “High Knights” (lol?) and instead, Alliance SH Paladins. While also inventing lore out of nowhere.

I’m sorry you don’t like getting called out, but remove the condescending voice of “I pity Void Elves for getting Paladins, because there’s far better classes that they definately want more. :(” and you won’t have people telling you back.

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4021

Yeah that’s fair, RP also has an element of; if you use velf customizations to play a helf, everyone will recognize you as a helf during roleplay, meanwhile in content all you have are NPC’s that keep confirming: your character is a void elf actually.

Its also one of the reasons why I personally wouldn’t oppose high elves being added as a standalone race, but at the same time I’m not blind that for every person who wants high elves, you can probably find more then one person who doesn’t want high elves, maybe because they want another race, maybe because they think 4 elf races is enough.

Ah then I misunderstood a bit, I tend to agree but I also think that until you get your standalone race, getting the customizations added to a different race is a bit empty, opinions differ ofcourse per person you’d ask and there’d definately be an audiance for it even as customizatiom options.

Mostly because blizzard gave that reason, people who say that are mostly just mirroring what Blizzard has said a long few years ago. I do agree with the notion that once the velves were introduced that went out of the window, also when starting zones stopped being a thing (the lvl 1 to 20 ones) you also didn’t have the issue of what would the helf starter zone even be, just roll them up in the new starter isle experience.

Its mostly a matter of what do people want blizzard to spend their development time of, if they had all the time in the world and were able to cough up like 5 races for a new expansion, all rigged, lore written for and with starter zones, people likely wouldn’t be as resistant against high elves.

Ey nice, tbc was my starting point too, Sylvare was a warlock first but people suggested maybe I should try melee once I found a staff with on hit shadowbolt and thought oh this is realy good for me, technically my second char, but this feels like my first.

True, which is one of the reasons why I strongly advocate for standalone races in all possible scenarios

4022

Glad we agree.

4023

Not at all. I still intend on engaging with your posts and push engagement with your posts, since it bumps the Discussion up - and it’s easy to counter your made-up headcanon on why HElves shouldn’t be added, or why HElves can’t be Paladins (or VElves for that matter) - for other players that bump over it to see and read. Regardless of whether you reply.

Don’t you think it’s quite strange when you’re contradicting yourself? On one end, you’re saying you’re supporting the addition of High Elves. But at the same time, you finish it off with counter-signalling that they shouldn’t be added because we already have four Elven races. Be honest with yourself, if not with others. :slight_smile:

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4024

It only makes sense once you consider the possability that maybe you are projecting the idea that I am against adding high elves onto me

I am for adding high elves in a way that continues the conflict between them and blood elves.

I am against turning them into blue blood elves.

There are several high elf threads in the past where I have expressed this time and time again.

Helf/Belf is my favourite narrative corner of the story and you can’t exactly have either without the other.

Do what you can’t resist.

4025

Unfortunately I think they are at a narrative dead end, and everything I see so far from recent expansions and Midnight agrees. Blizzard seems intent on replacing Alliance High Elves with Void Elves as the Blood Elves narrative foil within the Alliance. Look at the emphasis the Void Elves are getting now…the leading lore character of the whole saga is a Void Elf. The lorewalking questchain explaining where Blood Elves and Void Elves came from is focused on Blood Elves and Void Elves. Even in the expansion itself we are seeing Void Elf armor and weapons as rewards.

That’s an impossibility though. Because they are the same race, identical in every way save their political opinion, all they would be is blue Blood Elves. When faced with this very quandry as they developed the sub-race system, the solution Blizzard hit upon was to create a thematic variant in Void Elves. And we know that purists rejected Void Elves for ‘not being High Elves’. You cannot differentiate a High Elf from a Blood Elf without the High Elf ceasing to be a High Elf. There’s no High Elf armor or weapon rewards because that aesthetic is exactly what the Blood Elf armor and weapon rewards cover.

I have seen variations of this argument made for over a decade and you are right to ignore it. That engagement keeps the topic alive and will somehow keep it popular and encourage Blizzard to add High Elves. The success of that strategy can be inferred from the fact that I HAVE SEEN IT FOR OVER A DECADE.
It has zero impact and is a childish argument from anyone who makes it. Always gets by back up as an attempt to pervert your disagreement into somehow helping their cause when no, it really, really, REALLY doesn’t.

Besides, when left alone pro High Elf discussions tend to devolve into self-congratulatory absolutist headcanon spectacles. It is not pretty.

4026

I get seeing that yeah, all we really see is the silver covenant and not much else, I just don’t see the harm in opening up the high elf to the alliance as playable, as I’ve also said before, another potential outcome for the helves is displayed in the Arathi, namely genetic mingling with their hosts. Maybe we can see the start of that happening by sprinkling more helves in stormwind and then going hey player character? see that? thats one of you, you’re one of them.

Sure it may be unrealistic to get a ‘and this is where the high elf exiles collectively are today’ because of the obvious reason of there is no real helf collective among the exiles by blizzards own words, but it also wouldn’t hurt to see more of them sprinkled around in the societies that do act as hosts for them, I feel like it’d bring some extra flavour and detail to the world that doesn’t really harm anything (other then blizzards development time)

What helps the least I think, is blizzards silently dancing around the subject. They could do a ‘and then the high elves seeing a familiar face in alleria joined the void elf ranks’ but we don’t see any of that either.

Yeah they’ve given out of world explanations as to why they’re not playable but they could maybe show a bit more of it ingame.

And honestly as for other people, its whatever, sometimes you just get people who project something on to you and then everything you say becomes a confirmation of that projection. May it become character development for all involved.

I just feel like a homecomming for these split groups of thalassians would be the most lukewarm resolution of their conflict imaginable but maybe thats unreasonable.

4027

Not exactly. Back in the Shadowlands, BElf customizations were updated - and they included blue eyes. Which in turn led to a community response that led to Void Elven customizations being added in as well, where we had blue eyed tentacle-less customizations and normal skin tones to make up for it as a last-minute addition to placate that.

This sort of feedback does work, and as we’ve seen in the past, the developers are receptive to it generally. Which is incidentally why I assume you spend so much of your creative energy counter-signalling it?

I will admit one thing. Blizzard isn’t reading into EU-based forum posts, and they generally engage on social media platforms like X and Bluesky.

Of the Quel’thalas gear rewards, we are seeing five color variants. Two of which that are Blood Elven, one that is Void Elven/Silver Covenant, another that is High Elven and another that is Farstrider (green continues to be used by both HElves and BElves interchangeably). I think there’s enough High Elven representation in terms of gear so far.

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4028

I get that some people say what’s the harm, but look at it from my perspective. From my perspective, this is a group of players who actively want to play one of the most popular and iconic Horde races without being Horde. In a game built on two factions, that’s not fair on a faction level. They’ve also made very clear that their argument for Alliance High Elves within the narrative is that these are the true High Elves, so if they were to get them, they would immediately insist that Blood Elves aren’t the true High Elves, even though Blood Elves are expressly designed to be that.

In gameplay terms, it would be a further weakening of faction diversity given you are opening up what is the Horde’s most popular race to the other side. And morally, a compromise was already delivered in Void Elves. In practical terms what is left to add save the name plate and that story ability to argue they are the real deal.

My hope remains that the remaining Alliance High Elves are narratively retired over the course of this expansion. Them going home and leaving the faction conflict behind, even if they maintain some friendliness to the Alliance, would be ideal.

4029

If that pressure worked, why are there still topics on it?

The reason of course is that you are describing getting compromises when is sought is total victory.

As for ‘counter-signalling’, wait, you think what is said here actually matters? Let me break it down for you.

Blizzard’s development pipeline is long. VERY long. Decisions are made years in advance. We know for example they are internally planning out the end of the Last Titan, and we aren’t even at the end of the War Within yet. In other words, a big decision like adding Alliance High Elves would have to be made years in advance.

Now, once you accept that, you have to figure out the corollarys. Firstly, if they were going to add them, you need to plan out a Horde counterpart because they wouldn’t be neutral. You also need to build introductory content, including a voice over and an introductory cinematic, perhaps even a few starter quests. Art time has to be set aside for a heritage armor set. All this has to be planned, and built, and ready to deploy when necessary.

And as Ion said, they decide on Allied Races based on when they make narrative sense. That is why this topic has flared to life again. Because if they were ever going to make narrative sense, it is the Midnight expansion.

Where are they? Where was the reveal of their inclusion?

Where are the datamined breadcrumbs for the addition we have found with other allied races.

Nothing has been found because there is nothing to find. Attention has shifted therefore to the upcoming major patches, which are the last realistic opportunities for movement. 12.1 looks like it is set on the large island landmass east of Zul’Aman, and it is VERY troll heavy. So in reality it 12.2 is the last chance, because when we are back among the Tuskarr and the Vrykul the chances of ‘hey, let’s go back and deal with more thalassian elf stuff after we spent nearly two years in Quel’thalas’ is probably the last thing on folks minds.

Truth is, if this was going to happen, we would probably know right now.

4030

I guess I am looking at it more from a narrative perspective then a gameplay perspective, I think back to my engagement in RP where my blood elf was beefing with a high elf and then going yeah that was so cool I want more of that and go yeah why not bake this into the game.

As for how players would react to it, honstly I’m not too concerned, sure there will definately be the helf that’ll bo ‘I’m the real deal you PHONY’ but at the same time, that’d be kinda funny if it happened in roleplay, but I can see how that’d get tiring on forums.

Still tho, I hope blizzard doesn’t determine how to shape the story entirely based on what people on the forums are claiming, regardless of what it is they are claiming, it is their story first and foremost. If they add high elves but don’t make them about the things you fear players will pick up on, then its just the players wrongly interpreting whats going on in the game.

I guess another reason for me not seeing much harm in getting helf as a standalone race is because they already exist as a customization which means that in a way, you already see the helf aesthetic around and maybe its cause I’m on an RP server but I like to see what they’re cooking, we’re facing down a human footman themed guild and there’s a single helf among them in full footman armour, that stuff doesn’t really feel reductive.

The gameplay arguement definately is a fair one I hadn’t considered strongly tho.

It’d be a resolution yeah, not one many people would want to see, but atleast more then the occasional silver covenant showing up and isn’t just mostly radio silence outside of the silver covenant.

4031

I don’t think they are a customisation though.

I mean sure, back when they were first introduced on Void Elves I figured they were a courtesy for players but they’ve actually dropped in NPCs using those customisations who are clearly Void Elves in recent patches, particularly in K’aresh.

As a result, I now just see those as part of the Void Elf palette range. They still bleed purple if poked, showing those customisations are only skin deep.

At the moment you have light elves on the Horde and void elves on the Alliance. That dichotomy enriches the diversification of both factions. That’s why I am opposed to the OTHER suggestion, of watering down Void Elf racials so that RP’ers can pretend to be something they aren’t. I find it appallingly selfish they would try and ruin the lore of an existing race just so they can deny they are what they chose to play.

And I can’t respect that desire. Real roleplayers try and inhabit the world they are presented with. These folks demand authorship.

I also see the Silver Covenant as akin to Ogres you occasionally encounter within the Horde. A legacy presence that isn’t really part of the faction anymore but occasionally trotted out for nostalgic reasons.

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